Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But, but, but, how much did you make over the year before. A loss is not a loss unless you take it,
This is absolutely false. You can be down from X and still be down even if you haven’t closed out the position. This is a common lie people tell themselves
Quote:
so while I am down part of my up, I am not down into my money plus what interest I could have earned and that is because I set my allocation where I thought it should be and I am obviously comfortable with much lower gains than many of you are.
You are down part of your up meaning you are down from a higher point
Quote:
Too many people see a down as a loss, it is really not until you sell it.
This is complelty false. You can be down or at a loss with or without selling
Quote:
When the housing market went down, only those who sold suffered a loss or a down, I bought such a property and within a few years it was worth what the person had bought it for and now worth more, so had they been able to keep it, then they could have sold it now for a profit.
Everyone who was down was down selling or not
Quote:
That is your opinion, unless you can read his mind, you have no idea why he does what he does and so far he has been supposedly able to decimate ISIS, thus saving many lives, if true, and it looks like North Korea may give up their nukes, that is of course to be seen but he seems to be getting more out of them than past presidents who placated them.
Sure some of it’s my opinion but often he spouts either nonsense or outright lies
Quote:
I do not attempt to second guess someone who knows a lot more and has a lot more information than I do. I used to work for govt and I can tell you that we the people know nothing when compared to those who are on the inside of anything, so it is always easy to be an armchair commentator rather than in the game itself.
Please believe me that I feel for your down but unless you sold, IMO you are not losing anything..
I can second guess someone smarter especially when they completely fabricate things. So if your friend still had his GM stock sitting in his account with no value would you tell him he didn’t lose anything? I still see accounts holding Lehman positions with no value I should call them up and tell them they haven’t lost either
Psychology is pivotal! For many of us, every successive new high, mentally resets what we possess. Then, any pullback from that high, feels like a loss. Is that rational? Maybe not, but for those of us who don't have any particular expenses or goals towards which we invest, psychology is ultimately the reason for chasing money.
Thus, it is entirely possible to be cumulatively up, many hundreds of percent over one's initial investment, and to feel nail-biting dread and debilitating chagrin, after only a 10% decline. As others have mentioned, eventually one's portfolio comes to be a large multiple of one's annual salary. This means that, even if we have zero intention of spending from our portfolio, it is no longer possible to recoup any significant losses (however transitory) with additional savings. One becomes more dependent on the market, for further growing one's portfolio. But at the same time, one becomes more skittish and dyspeptic, in worry over some small (in percentage terms) loss.
I'm fairly certain, that some of the more established posters on this Forum made their first investment decades ago... long before the dot-com crash, or the Great Recession. Cumulative gains are quite substantial, even after the malaise of the first ~13 years of this century. And yet, and yet... any drop from present heights feels unsettling, does it not? Such are the wages of psychology.
Psychology is pivotal! For many of us, every successive new high, mentally resets what we possess. Then, any pullback from that high, feels like a loss. Is that rational? Maybe not, but for those of us who don't have any particular expenses or goals towards which we invest, psychology is ultimately the reason for chasing money.
Thus, it is entirely possible to be cumulatively up, many hundreds of percent over one's initial investment, and to feel nail-biting dread and debilitating chagrin, after only a 10% decline. As others have mentioned, eventually one's portfolio comes to be a large multiple of one's annual salary. This means that, even if we have zero intention of spending from our portfolio, it is no longer possible to recoup any significant losses (however transitory) with additional savings. One becomes more dependent on the market, for further growing one's portfolio. But at the same time, one becomes more skittish and dyspeptic, in worry over some small (in percentage terms) loss.
I'm fairly certain, that some of the more established posters on this Forum made their first investment decades ago... long before the dot-com crash, or the Great Recession. Cumulative gains are quite substantial, even after the malaise of the first ~13 years of this century. And yet, and yet... any drop from present heights feels unsettling, does it not? Such are the wages of psychology.
SUCH ARE THE WAGES OF BEING SPOILED THE LAST 9 YEARS....seems we all forgot what the bear looks like and we are PETRIFIED OF IT. As I said from square one...when the bear truly comes...the panic selling will be insufferable for the exact reason you state. People don't want to risk their gains even though its part of the natural cycle and you are going to a sell off that will make the coolest cucumber shudder.
This is absolutely false. You can be down from X and still be down even if you haven’t closed out the position. This is a common lie people tell themselves
If you say so, I suspect you will be singing a different tune if the market goes right back up but none of us know what will be, you obviously have a different pucker factor than I do, I let it roll off my back because I set myself up so that even if I lose it all, it will upset me but I will just write the losses off my taxes and let it roll off my back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
You are down part of your up meaning you are down from a higher point
Yup and it does not bother me one bit because it is what it is and I cannot change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
Sure some of it’s my opinion but often he spouts either nonsense or outright lies
Again your opinion because you obviously think way too much of yourself and your opinions, I know for a fact that we do not know what goes on in govt but you are of course entitled to your opinions, even when they are likely wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations
I can second guess someone smarter especially when they completely fabricate things. So if your friend still had his GM stock sitting in his account with no value would you tell him he didn’t lose anything? I still see accounts holding Lehman positions with no value I should call them up and tell them they haven’t lost either
Why are you comparing a total loss because a company goes broke to your downs, none of which went broke based on what you posted and you claim to be in the market for a long time, so it is not like you just got in and took a bath, for those people I feel for their loses because it is their money they lost, not gains.
Anyway opinions are like ********* well you know what they are like, you have yours and I have mine, I do not worry about down positions that I have not sold, the one I sold was up 30k and I bought VWINX with that to balance out our portfolio to my liking and it appears from your posts that you like to blame everyone but yourself for your downs and appear to make yourself sick over them, different strokes for different folks.
I really hope you do not get sick over any of this because in the scheme of life, this stuff is so small, even the election, if Trump is as bad as you feel he is, then he will not get reelected unless the dems foolishly put up another total loser like they did the last time, I would have happily voted for Jim Webb over Trump but not over Killery.
If you say so, I suspect you will be singing a different tune if the market goes right back up but none of us know what will be, you obviously have a different pucker factor than I do, I let it roll off my back because I set myself up so that even if I lose it all, it will upset me but I will just write the losses off my taxes and let it roll off my back.
My tune won’t be any different and there’s nothing wrong with my pucker factor. I understand risk and market cycles just fine
Quote:
Yup and it does not bother me one bit because it is what it is and I cannot change it.
In part because you lie to yourself
Quote:
Again your opinion because you obviously think way too much of yourself and your opinions, I know for a fact that we do not know what goes on in govt but you are of course entitled to your opinions, even when they are likely wrong.
The president lying has nothing to do with my opinion
Quote:
Why are you comparing a total loss because a company goes broke to your downs, none of which went broke based on what you posted and you claim to be in the market for a long time, so it is not like you just got in and took a bath, for those people I feel for their loses because it is their money they lost, not gains.
Because factually it’s the same thing except one you recognize as a loss and another you lie to yourself and say it doesn’t count until you sell
Quote:
Anyway opinions are like ********* well you know what they are like, you have yours and I have mine, I do not worry about down positions that I have not sold, the one I sold was up 30k and I bought VWINX with that to balance our my portfolio to my liking and it appears from your posts that you like to blame everyone but yourself for your downs and appear to make yourself sick over them, different strokes for different folks.
I’m not blaming everyone else for losses nor am I sick over them. You must have me confused with someone else
Quote:
I really hope you do not get sick over any of this because in the scheme of life, this stuff is so small, even the election, if Trump is as bad as you feel he is, then he will not get reelected unless the dems foolishly put up another total loser like they did the last time, I would have happily voted for Jim Webb over Trump but not over Killery.
I’m not sure why you feel I’m sick over the market movements. I plug the same dollars in every month on a schedule and keep doing no matter who is in office.
SUCH ARE THE WAGES OF BEING SPOILED THE LAST 9 YEARS....seems we all forgot what the bear looks like and we are PETRIFIED OF IT. As I said from square one...when the bear truly comes...the panic selling will be insufferable for the exact reason you state. People don't want to risk their gains even though its part of the natural cycle and you are going to a sell off that will make the coolest cucumber shudder.
Yes, the past 9 years were pleasantly remunerative. But even within that period, let's not forget the volatility of 2011 or 2016. And more importantly, let's not forget that the past 9 years, happened to have followed the previous 9 - which were some of the worst in history (including the Great Depression, if adjusted for inflation/deflation). Long-term investors who remember those years can easily get into a mindset, where they (we) feel that finally we're owed a placid and lucrative period in the market. Keep in mind, that the combination of the aforementioned 9-year periods, results in an 18 year period that's still well below average. If we believe in "reversion to the mean", then the market should zoom up, even from present levels. If instead it falls, one is liable to feel miffed and cheated, as even average performance feels to be out of reach.
I’m not sure why you feel I’m sick over the market movements. I plug the same dollars in every month on a schedule and keep doing no matter who is in office.
Glad to hear that, complaints time in and time out on here about Trump get very old. Some complained when I posted about leftists in some of my posts, then some go ahead and continually complain about Trump, IMO we all need to play the cards we are dealt and he is just one of them.
I almost died a few times during my life, it changed my whole outlook on what is important and what is not. Things we cannot change are not worth worrying about.
Yes, the past 9 years were pleasantly remunerative. But even within that period, let's not forget the volatility of 2011 or 2016. And more importantly, let's not forget that the past 9 years, happened to have followed the previous 9 - which were some of the worst in history (including the Great Depression, if adjusted for inflation/deflation). Long-term investors who remember those years can easily get into a mindset, where they (we) feel that finally we're owed a placid and lucrative period in the market. Keep in mind, that the combination of the aforementioned 9-year periods, results in an 18 year period that's still well below average. If we believe in "reversion to the mean", then the market should zoom up, even from present levels. If instead it falls, one is liable to feel miffed and cheated, as even average performance feels to be out of reach.
60/40 stocks to bonds...safe ....reliable. Yea you wont break the bank . But you will keep yourself sane because the roller coaster is just getting out of the gate/
Well it is another day that I believe Trump is still president, so how do you Trump haters/blamer's explain the up days like today, when he is the same president, making the same comments, yet the market goes up on some days like today, and even when it should be common knowledge that we might be about to get into it with Russia, and don't say because Trump changed his comments, anyone should know comments are just that, reality is what a person should base their thoughts on.
.......
You do not seem to want to understand the concerns about Trump. First it is not a matter of dislike or hate. He is unethical, crude, unfaithful to his wives, misogynistic, and he has a long history of cheating and deception. These are things to dislike but they have little to do with the economy.
The bigger concerns are that his administration has been disorganized and chaotic. No one can work with him and he has not built a team or an administrative structure to run the country. Unfortunately that is only the tip of the iceberg and a symptom of the main issue. He is clearly paranoid and delusional to point of being clinically insane.
You may disagree with this assessment but my opinions on Trump are shared by millions of others. No one is sure what he will do next but the markets react to the worst scenarios, the chief of which is the "trade war" with China. Every time he opens his mouth on this subject or proposes or takes action, the markets have and will continue to drop. When he seems to back off, the markets are likely to recover.
I don't trust Trump
I am sure there is coordinated effort among his camp that these moves are making someone money--someone Trump is paying off
Maybe even Putin has money in our stock market...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
complaints time in and time out on here about Trump get very old. Some complained when I posted about leftists in some of my posts, then some go ahead and continually complain about Trump, IMO we all need to play the cards we are dealt and he is just one of them. 
