survey shows Des Moines is losing people? (Cedar Rapids, Grant: house, buy)

[southwest1230]

Originally Posted by pepe1

???

I think you menat to say the opposite of what you have stated.

Almost ALL large cities lose population while their suburbs grow.

No, first off, the vast majority of the Des Moines metro pop is in the city limits. Without straying too far off into the boondocks, realistically the metro pop is very much centered in Des Moines proper. Flat or declining metros lose population in their cities as the suburbs grow, but the thriving ones gain both city and burbs...just the rapid annexing alone would account for it in Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Orlando, Las Vegas, Denver, and even LA........the dead midwestern metros all gain in burbs at the expense of the city, including Des Moines......Des Moines seems to be gaining in the small little former burgs on the outskirts of town. The stats honestly threw me, as I thought Des Moines city was gaining, and that the city was thriving.....didn't realize the growth was just in little towns on the outskirts.....

[southwest1230]

Originally Posted by SharpHawkeye

This is from the Des Moines Register's story on the last Census estimate. For a pretty good discussion of various Iowa cities' growth in general--this thread from absoluteDSM is pretty interesting.

absoluteDSM.com :: View topic - 2006 Iowa Cities Population Estimates

For the record, I disagree with your notion that cities with any loss of population are "unhealthy". From the list you linked to, I see that Minneapolis lost 2.6%, comparable to Des Moines. Would you consider Minneapolis an unhealthy city?

Anyone notice that outside of urbandale, w des moines, and ankeny, all the rest of those growing burbs are under 15,000K, and that 7 burbs are under 5K? I still think that looks bad when you see Des Moines losing 2.4% in the graph. The city should be a thriving driver for the rest of the metro. Hard to do that when its losing population.

[mfrerkes]

Originally Posted by southwest1230

Des Moines seems to be gaining in the small little former burgs on the outskirts of town. The stats honestly threw me, as I thought Des Moines city was gaining, and that the city was thriving.....didn't realize the growth was just in little towns on the outskirts.....

Rural Iowa is moving to urban areas. Much of Des Moines' growth is fueled by the carcasses of dying towns in rural parts of the state. People aren't moving from Florida or California to live in DSM. Instead, they're leaving Webster City and Iowa Falls to live in a nearby bigger city. Iowa itself has gained very little in the way of population, and what it has gained comes mostly through illegal immigrants seeking work in agriculture.

[pepe1]

Originally Posted by southwest1230

No, first off, the vast majority of the Des Moines metro pop is in the city limits. Without straying too far off into the boondocks, realistically the metro pop is very much centered in Des Moines proper. Flat or declining metros lose population in their cities as the suburbs grow, but the thriving ones gain both city and burbs...just the rapid annexing alone would account for it in Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Orlando, Las Vegas, Denver, and even LA........the dead midwestern metros all gain in burbs at the expense of the city, including Des Moines......Des Moines seems to be gaining in the small little former burgs on the outskirts of town. The stats honestly threw me, as I thought Des Moines city was gaining, and that the city was thriving.....didn't realize the growth was just in little towns on the outskirts.....

Absolute jibberish.

The city of Des Moines makes up about 1/3 of the metro population. Hardly a majority.

Metro areas with a growing core city are exceptions, not the rule. Nearly every large city in the US loses population while subrbs gain (aging populations are a significant factor in this phenomenom). So, there really seems to be little evidence to support your growing core city - healthy metro area theory.

Chicago, hasn't gained in population since who knows when.
Same for Minneapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and on and on and on...

[RonnieJonez]

The only reason DSM's city population hasn't fallen under 190,000 is because of all the illegal immigrants that now populate the East Side.

It's interesting because so many people are against illegal immigration yet it is helping their cities sustain some of the urban core population, and in some instances, even grow. Truthfully, a lot of cities only care about proving their population numbers as bigger than last years (especiailly the mid-size cities)...so at least the illegals are helping them out in some ways.

[mfrerkes]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

Truthfully, a lot of cities only care about proving their population numbers as bigger than last years (especiailly the mid-size cities)...so at least the illegals are helping them out in some ways.

There is alot of contradictory rhetoric regarding the issue of migrant workers in the state of Iowa. As mentioned, it is the illegal immigrants who keep Iowa from losing population year after year. Yet, there seems to be an ever-increasing level of animosity towards those very same people.

Iowa's population will likely continue the internal shifting (from rural to urban) for the next several decades. However, if illegal immigrants are stopped from entering the state, Iowa's overall population will most certainly drop. Some of the small rural counties around the state will be forced to consolidate with their neighbors, furthering diluting the identity of non-urban areas within Iowa.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by mfrerkes

There is alot of contradictory rhetoric regarding the issue of migrant workers in the state of Iowa. As mentioned, it is the illegal immigrants who keep Iowa from losing population year after year. Yet, there seems to be an ever-increasing level of animosity towards those very same people.

Iowa's population will likely continue the internal shifting (from rural to urban) for the next several decades. However, if illegal immigrants are stopped from entering the state, Iowa's overall population will most certainly drop. Some of the small rural counties around the state will be forced to consolidate with their neighbors, furthering diluting the identity of non-urban areas within Iowa.

You think Iowa has problems with losing rural population? Kansas is losing rural population at a MUCH faster rate. In fact, many rural counties in Kansas have lost more than 10% of their population in the last 5 years alone! The problem with the Great Plains is that many areas were originally oversettled as a result of the Homestead Act in the 1860s. The area in the Great Plains was promoted as being very good for farming. Therefore, you ended up seeing a lot of in-migration into the rural areas at the end of the 19th century. When it was realized that drought conditions were very common and the soil wasn't that good in some places a lot of people started moving to the urban areas to seek jobs. That trend has been accelerating for over 100 years as farm machinery and technology has led to fewer people needed to run the farm, and the urban areas offered much more variety in terms of the type of jobs offered with usually much better wages. The rural areas in Kansas include many ghost towns these days with completely abandoned main streets, mostly vacant buildings, and many abandoned houses with windows completely missing and roofs caved in.

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by pepe1

Chicago, hasn't gained in population since who knows when.
Same for Minneapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, and on and on and on...

? Chicago gained roughly the entire population of Cedar Rapids from 1990 to 2000.

[Chicago60614]

Originally Posted by southwest1230

No, first off, the vast majority of the Des Moines metro pop is in the city limits. Without straying too far off into the boondocks, realistically the metro pop is very much centered in Des Moines proper. Flat or declining metros lose population in their cities as the suburbs grow, but the thriving ones gain both city and burbs...just the rapid annexing alone would account for it in Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas, Orlando, Las Vegas, Denver, and even LA........the dead midwestern metros all gain in burbs at the expense of the city, including Des Moines......Des Moines seems to be gaining in the small little former burgs on the outskirts of town. The stats honestly threw me, as I thought Des Moines city was gaining, and that the city was thriving.....didn't realize the growth was just in little towns on the outskirts.....

Almost 68% of the people in the Des Moines CSA live outside of Des Moines proper. I seriously don't think the city is shrinking, but a LOT of the growth in the area is outside of the city.

[Stevie]

RonnieJonez,

How can "illegal" immigrants keep Des Moines from falling under 190,000??? If they are "illegal" then they are not included in the census.

Besides, Iowa is welcoming "legal" immigrants not only to help save the population but to make Iowa more diverse.

That's another thing...illegals are not included in the demographics either.