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Old 01-09-2008, 11:38 PM
City Boy in The 'Burbs
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I'm sorry I'm getting into this debate a little bit late, but it's only been recently that I've taken a keen liking to Iowa (despite the fact that you overwhelmingly supported Suckabee).

Anyhow I resent very much politicians who feel as if they are on a holy quest to impart the power of the "good book" into legislation. I myself am a devout Lutheran, but I don't for one second want an elected official representing me who can't differentiate between his personal religious beliefs and a legislative process that affects 300,000,000 of his or her constituents, many of whom may have divergent religious perspectives (if any at all).

To those who defend Huckabee and others who make their personal faith such a major selling point, please permit me to present the following scenarios:

1.) A right-wing conservative Christian is voted into the White House. He (or she) begins pitching ideas to Congress about making the Holy Bible the "law of the land." Judging by the right-wing nature of this forum, most of you would run out into the streets shooting your rifles into the air about a "proper" man who is "enlightening the heathens." Anyone who doesn't share these viewpoints are out of luck.

2.) A left-wing liberal Muslim is voted into the White House. He (or she) begins pitching ideas to Congress about making the Qur'an the "law of the land." Judging once again by the right-wing nature of this foum, most of you would run out into the streets again shooting your rifles, but this time it would be while shouting battle cries seeking an end to this "unholy regime."

Now do some of you who are making a candidate's peronal religious beliefs a major deciding factor in influencing how you vote see how foolish you are? Christians have no more of a "right" to impose their moral viewpoints onto others via legislation than Muslims, Atheists, Wiccans, Jews, etc. do.

Where do we see examples of this, you may ask? As a gay person who has been desperately pleading with locals to vote against a proposed ban in Pennsylvania against same-sex civil unions (yes, we're one of the few uber-conservative states in the Northeast), most of the rebuttals I get from right-wing conservatives bring religion into play. I have yet to talk to one right-wing Republican who can give me a good, honest answer as to why my partner and I can't enter into a civil union other than "God wouldn't want it that way." Well perhaps YOUR God preaches intolerance, but that doesn't mean everyone else's does as well. When people start belly-aching about the "sanctity" of marriage being threatened by permitting gays to have civil unions and about how "Christian ideals" are "under attack" I truly want to vomit in disbelief. When states enact permanent bans on same-sex marriages and/or same-sex civil unions, they are doing so based upon religious hysteria. This is just ONE prime example of how if left unchecked right-wing conservatives are pushing the Bible and their faith into legislation that affects everyone. I always ask why these same right-wingers who gripe about same-sex civil unions being blasphemous don't have any qualms about heterosexual Atheist couples getting married if marriage, according to them, is a CHRISTIAN institution? They always give me the "deer in headlights" look because they honestly do NOT have a good rebuttal, nor do I expect them to. You know why? It's a blatant double-standard to enact legislation that prevents ONE group from getting married based upon religious fundamentalism while permitting ANOTHER group that even goes so far as to denounce the existence of a God to enter into "holy matrimony." That's something most right-wing Republicans conveniently fail to tell you, isn't it?

I attend church weekly. I volunteer in my community. I pray daily. I love my Lord. At the same time I know that a Christian God created us with free will so we could either choose to accept him and abide by his teachings or reject him and live life without him. By enacting legislation with a Christian overtone we are essentially giving up the free will for Americans to reject our Lord if they should so choose.

Most of you people who defend candidates blending religion and politics would be the first ones to complain if a non-Christian president were to commit the same offense. Hypocrites.
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SWB View Post

Most of you people who defend candidates blending religion and politics would be the first ones to complain if a non-Christian president were to commit the same offense. Hypocrites.

A lot of our ethics and world views come from religion, like it or not, good or bad. I think it has more to do with knowing what guides the candidate than expecting anything outside the realm of the constitution. I know I'd feel better about putting a Methodist in office over a Baptist, Jew or Catholic because odds are their views on the issues that pertain to morality match up with mine.

A lot of your post made me do this , by the way. Kind of condescending.
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:52 PM
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I agree SWB, I'm very frightened by any political rep. throwing his or her own religious beliefs into politics. I honestly don't know why a leaders religious background or beliefs are of any concern during an election.

There are 300,000,000 people in this country, and there are a LOT of different religions/beliefs. Bush was scary enough when he started throwing Christianity into everything he talked about, it sure makes the other 5 billion people in the world look at us in utter confusement.

As far as Iowa though, Huckabee only got 11.6% of the total votes cast. This is mainly because the Democrats turned out in far larger numbers than Republicans. A majority of the state does NOT back this guy.
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I agree SWB, I'm very frightened by any political rep. throwing his or her own religious beliefs into politics. I honestly don't know why a leaders religious background or beliefs are of any concern during an election.

There are 300,000,000 people in this country, and there are a LOT of different religions/beliefs. Bush was scary enough when he started throwing Christianity into everything he talked about, it sure makes the other 5 billion people in the world look at us in utter confusement.

As far as Iowa though, Huckabee only got 11.6% of the total votes cast. This is mainly because the Democrats turned out in far larger numbers than Republicans. A majority of the state does NOT back this guy.
Exactly, when will the extreme right wing christian freaks figure it out???
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_W View Post
Exactly, when will the extreme right wing christian freaks figure it out???
One can only hope as soon as possible. If Suckabee wins, I might just be joining two friends of mine who plan to move to Toronto after college! I don't want someone in office who can't differentiate between his personal religious beliefs and his professional life. If I were to get up on a soapbox at work about professing love for my God and about how we should all abide by his laws and commands, I'd probably be reprimanded. Why then is it permissible for the president of the United States to do the same?
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SWB View Post
. If I were to get up on a soapbox at work about professing love for my God and about how we should all abide by his laws and commands, I'd probably be reprimanded. Why then is it permissible for the president of the United States to do the same?

Well, if that's what the people of the United States vote for and it checks out with the Constitution (remember freedom of religion goes both ways- freedom from and freedom of) then so be it.


Call me crazy, but I don't think that having a president who thinks that we should follow the Ten Commandments is grounds enough to leave the country. I mean, it's not THAT bad of a list. I'll admit I'm guilty of a few of them here and there ( especially since two of my neighbors have some good looking wives. The Mexican one is pretty hot and the Asian one is too, although I don't usually go in for Asian girls. I get the fascination for white males with Asian women, but I'm just not into it. I'm into her though)

But hey, you do what you want. It's a free country.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:58 AM
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I competely get the fascination with Asian women. I may invest in one some day.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_W View Post
I competely get the fascination with Asian women. I may invest in one some day.


It might not be a bad deal. It could be the best two years of your life until she can divorce you. I looked up Russian mail order brides once for the hell of it. I thought it was funny that they always listed "children and cooking" on their interests.
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