Job market in Iowa (Des Moines, Cedar Rapids: home, rent, hotel)

[dmguy30]

Looks like someone has some Des Moines envy! Des Moines is a great place to call home. There are tons of things to do here and we have a great economy to boot! BTW...Madison, Wisconsin and Des Moines are virtually the same size. The biggest difference is that our economy isn't dependant on a university.

Our Downtown continues its massive resurgence as well...
Look at absolutedsm.com's Downtown projects page to see what is happening:

Downtown-Central Projects

Sports (what professional sports are in IC?...NONE):

AHL Iowa Stars (Hockey)
USHL Des Moines Buccaneers (Hockey)
PDL Iowa Menace (Soccer)
AF2 Iowa Barnstormers (Arena Football)
AAA Iowa Cubs (Baseball)
NBDL Iowa Energy (Basketball)

College Sports:
DIV I Drake Bulldogs (With the Men's Basketball Team ranked #16 in the country)

Not to mention Iowa State is 30 minutes north of Downtown in Ames if you want more and the Hawks are an easy drive too...which is 90 minutes to the east.

Shopping: Coralridge isn't even close to Jordan Creek. Just look at their directories and you'll see why there isn't much of a comparison (Some of the biggest national retail and restaurant chains are at Jordan Creek-including Cheesecake Factory, J Crew, Coach, Pottery Barn, Apple, etc...with no stores in Coralridge). We also have three other malls in the metro to shop at.

We have several local merchant districts as well in the metro if you prefer those, including Valley Junction, Beaverdale and the East Village (Downtown).

Broadway is alive in Des Moines. The Civic Center is ranked #14 in the world for the amount of tickets sold for theaters (which is WHY the Civic Center is very successful at getting new tours in their first or second years). In addition, the Des Moines Playhouse, Des Moines Opera, Des Moines Ballet, Des Moines Symphony, Temple for Performing Arts and the StageWest at the Stoner Theatre provide for additional outlets to experience the arts. IC doesn't even come close.

You can also see major concerts and events at Wells Fargo Arena, which was opened in 2005 (Before WFA, we drove to Hilton Coliseum in Ames).

Some other big events that occur in Des Moines include:

Des Moines Des Moines Arts Festival (one of the top 10 in the country)
Iowa State Fair (ranked as one of the 1000 things in the world you must do before you die)
Winefest
Taste of Des Moines
Iowa Fringe Festival
Gateway Blues Festival
Hy-Vee Triathlon
Drake Relays
Capital City Pride
Iowa Speedway (in nearby Newton)

Museums:
Des Moines Arts Center
Salisbury House
Terrace Hill
Iowa State Historical Building
Iowa Science Center (with IMAX Dome)
Living History Farms

There is a lot more not even mentioned...you can view more at Greater Des Moines Convention and Visitors Bureau.

[WoodwardGirl]

Originally Posted by DMRyan

My biggest criticisms of Des Moines are that it doesn't offer much in terms of people looking for a bohemian, artsty type place (in terms of comparisons to other cities that Des Moines hangs with regionally or nationally, not smaller places in Iowa), the lack of a major college presence, not much on history or sense of place, partially fueled by the stoic white collar insurance/finance economy.

I'm sorry, but that's like saying Manhattan is a dud town because it's so hard to shop for tractors there...

Des Moines is what Des Moines is... why should it have something for everyone? If one is wanting artsy and bohemian, maybe one should go to a smaller city with whom we aren't comparing Des Moines, like Iowa City. Or one could go to a larger city with which we aren't comparing, such as Madison. I like to visit artsy and bohemian but one of the great things about Iowa is that you so seldom have to deal with people living in alternative realities.

As for not having much history or sense of place, I strongly beg to differ. How can you drive past the renovated capitol building and not feel the pride? Is there anyone who lives in Iowa that hasn't been to the Historical Muesum? If so, shame on you! Living History Farms... if you weren't old enough to remember when the Pope visited, you should read up on it. That was something. There's history all over the gosh darned place in Des Moines... now, the 'burbs, well, they're the 'burbs and there isn't usually a lot of history or sense of place in the 'burbs. Although some pretty interesting stuff happened on the land around where they built Jordan Creek, at least as far as my ancestors in that neighborhood were concerned!

[DSMGuy]

Yeah, I'd hang it up while you're way behind Desel...whatever, Des Moines has much more than most cities of its size class, except probably for overgrown college towns like Madison.

Oh, and Living History Farms was on a national list as one of the top museums in the nation. Their website might have that info.

Also, DM is regularly in the top 10 picks in Forbes Mag for places to locate a business, and also Site Selection Magazine and Kiplingers for similar reasons.

It is also the 2nd fastest growing metro in the Midwest, putting up growth numbers like you normally see in places like Denver and the Southwest. Must be doing something right?

[Deselminator]

Originally Posted by pepe1

I get the sense you are still in college - And as you go through life, you'll find college towns offer different amenities from cities whose economy and livliehood is not based off of the university.

Actually, no I'm not in college. And to be honest, there are many college towns that don't offer the amenities that Iowa City does. So I wouldn't think it's fair to say or imply that the ONLY reason Iowa City has decent amenities is because of the University...because that's not necessarily true. If that were the case, then every other city in the U.S. with a state-funded university would offer the same amenities and quality of life that Iowa City does, and obviously all of them don't.

Originally Posted by pepe1

Crime in Des Moines? Laughable pal. Property crime happens everywhere in the world.

Yes property crime happens everywhere, but I wouldn't call having your house broken into laughable...and I'm sure my friends who it happened to wouldn't either. Also does that mean that some places aren't worse than others? I don't think so. You probably look at the stats and say that the crime in Des Moines is laughable...I look at the experiences of the people I've known that have lived there (excluding West Des Moines) and I disagree. I personally wouldn't feel safe in many areas there myself.

Originally Posted by pepe1

Consider yourself very lucky never to have anything of yours stolen or vandalized in Iowa City.

I'm lucky to have not had my belongings stolen or vandalized in Iowa City? What exactly are you basing this statement on? It's funny to me that I know hundreds of people in the Iowa City/Coralville area, and not one of them has ever mentioned to me that they've had their belongings stolen or vandalized, yet I've known about half a dozen people who have lived in Des Moines and ALL of them have had things like that happen. I'm not saying Des Moines isn't safer than many other places, but I'm saying that it's not so safe that crime there is virtually non-existent or "laughable" as you had said. And quite frankly, I think you've been horribly misinformed about the crime in Iowa City.

[Deselminator]

Originally Posted by DSMGuy

Yeah, I'd hang it up while you're way behind Desel...whatever

Wow, I'm sure it would have been really tough for you to take the time to spell out my handle before you go on to criticize my post. Thanks for showing me such a high level of respect.

Originally Posted by DSMGuy

It is also the 2nd fastest growing metro in the Midwest, putting up growth numbers like you normally see in places like Denver and the Southwest. Must be doing something right?

While this may be true, I find it quite interesting that while the Des Moines metro area is indeed growing, according to this very website who's forum we're currently posting on, the population of Des Moines itself actually decreased from 2000 - 2006 by 2.4%! Wonder why that might be? If Des Moines was such a cool, fun, safe town to live in then why is everyone moving to the suburbs? Sure that is still the trend in many places, but also in many cool, hip, safe cities, people are actually moving to the city itself to be close to all those really great amenities! Why not in Des Moines if it has so much to offer? Why would someone choose to live in West Des Moines where they can spend twice as much for a house and have to drive 20 - 30 minutes to work, when they could live in Des Moines itself for potentially a lot less? Maybe it's because it really isn't that safe or because there really isn't that much cool stuff to do. Just my 2 cents.

[metro223]

Well when people move into a downtown and redeveloping neighborhoods - that usually isn't enough to even out a decline in growth trends. This happens in so many metros across the US - in fact, more than none. Minneapolis is a good example... (-2.6% change) - however MSP as a whole is booming.

Keep in mind Iowa City proper only grew a +0.7% - all of Iowa City's growth is in the suburbs too.

[Deselminator]

Originally Posted by metro223

Well when people move into a downtown and redeveloping neighborhoods - that usually isn't enough to even out a decline in growth trends. This happens in so many metros across the US - in fact, more than none. Minneapolis is a good example... (-2.6% change) - however MSP as a whole is booming.

You are correct to a point. Some cities actually do have increasing populations...Minneapolis, however, simply may not be one of them. There are many reasons why people move out of cities to the suburbs...often times it's because the cities themselves are either too expensive or not safe enough to warrant living there in lieu of the suburbs. In the case of Minneapolis, I'm not sure the exact reason. In the case of Des Moines, if it is indeed as safe and great as everyone is describing, I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be growing. Des Moines proper isn't that expensive, so that certainly isn't the reason. West Des Moines, on the other hand, is quite expensive, but yet people are still moving there in great numbers. Maybe it's because they don't want to live in Des Moines proper. I'm merely suggesting that there might be a good reason for that.
[/quote]

Originally Posted by metro223

Keep in mind Iowa City proper only grew a +0.7% - all of Iowa City's growth is in the suburbs too.

Yes, you are also correct in this, however in the case of Iowa City, this is because people either can't afford to live in the existing areas in Iowa City, or because Iowa City has made efforts to limit undesirable growth and sprawl. This is why Coralville and North Liberty are growing so rapidly...these communities have welcomed this type of sprawl-ridden growth because it will bring them tax revenue, more people, and new jobs. Notice that even though it is only by a small percentage...Iowa City is indeed still growing! Why is this? Maybe because it's actually a desirable place to live! Generally, places where people actually want to live experience growth, where as areas that people don't want to live experience a decline in population. I don't that's too difficult of a formula to decipher. So even though Iowa City is overpriced and makes efforts to limit it's growth, people are still trying to move there...again because it's a nice place to live with a lot to offer. If Des Moines was in a similar situation, IMO it too would be growing, and it would most likely wind up being rather expensive as well.

[DSMGuy]

Originally Posted by Deselminator

Wow, I'm sure it would have been really tough for you to take the time to spell out my handle before you go on to criticize my post. Thanks for showing me such a high level of respect.



While this may be true, I find it quite interesting that while the Des Moines metro area is indeed growing, according to this very website who's forum we're currently posting on, the population of Des Moines itself actually decreased from 2000 - 2006 by 2.4%! Wonder why that might be? If Des Moines was such a cool, fun, safe town to live in then why is everyone moving to the suburbs? Sure that is still the trend in many places, but also in many cool, hip, safe cities, people are actually moving to the city itself to be close to all those really great amenities! Why not in Des Moines if it has so much to offer? Why would someone choose to live in West Des Moines where they can spend twice as much for a house and have to drive 20 - 30 minutes to work, when they could live in Des Moines itself for potentially a lot less? Maybe it's because it really isn't that safe or because there really isn't that much cool stuff to do. Just my 2 cents.

You seem to be pretty sensitive to your handle, considering you probably pulled it out of the air. Maybe it does have sentimental value to you. It just reminds me of Desalamander or something.

Anyway.... Like the other posters who pointed out why you are so off the mark. Like Mpls, a lot of the growth in amenities in the DM metro are in downtown Des Moines. Yes, it has lost population. This is primarily due to tax disparities and lower crime rates (although it is pretty low in DM) and better schools in the suburbs.

DM is taking steps to turn this around and there are developments growing near the beltway on the east & south sides. New apartments & condos are filling up downtown also (condos not so much).

So you're also saying the city of DM is not growing because there "really isn't that much cool stuff to do" and that is why people are moving the the suburbs. I think you may not realize this, but we do cross city boundaries here to do things. It is not like there's a Berlin Wall between DM and the suburbs. There is no checkpoint with armed guards and watchtowers at 63rd St.

So people move to the metro, partially because there are a lot of great things to do downtown, but they live in the 'burbs for the reasons listed. Yes people actually access all the "cool stuff to do" downtown, but live in the suburbs. Maybe it takes a whopping 5-10 more minutes to get there, but they persevere under these extreme circumstances.

[DSMGuy]

Originally Posted by dmguy30

Looks like someone has some Des Moines envy! Des Moines is a great place to call home. There are tons of things to do here and we have a great economy to boot! BTW...Madison, Wisconsin and Des Moines are virtually the same size. The biggest difference is that our economy isn't dependant on a university.

Our Downtown continues its massive resurgence as well...
Look at absolutedsm.com's Downtown projects page to see what is happening:

Downtown-Central Projects

Sports (what professional sports are in IC?...NONE):

AHL Iowa Stars (Hockey)
USHL Des Moines Buccaneers (Hockey)
PDL Iowa Menace (Soccer)
AF2 Iowa Barnstormers (Arena Football)
AAA Iowa Cubs (Baseball)
NBDL Iowa Energy (Basketball)

College Sports:
DIV I Drake Bulldogs (With the Men's Basketball Team ranked #16 in the country)

Not to mention Iowa State is 30 minutes north of Downtown in Ames if you want more and the Hawks are an easy drive too...which is 90 minutes to the east.

Shopping: Coralridge isn't even close to Jordan Creek. Just look at their directories and you'll see why there isn't much of a comparison (Some of the biggest national retail and restaurant chains are at Jordan Creek-including Cheesecake Factory, J Crew, Coach, Pottery Barn, Apple, etc...with no stores in Coralridge). We also have three other malls in the metro to shop at.

We have several local merchant districts as well in the metro if you prefer those, including Valley Junction, Beaverdale and the East Village (Downtown).

Broadway is alive in Des Moines. The Civic Center is ranked #14 in the world for the amount of tickets sold for theaters (which is WHY the Civic Center is very successful at getting new tours in their first or second years). In addition, the Des Moines Playhouse, Des Moines Opera, Des Moines Ballet, Des Moines Symphony, Temple for Performing Arts and the StageWest at the Stoner Theatre provide for additional outlets to experience the arts. IC doesn't even come close.

You can also see major concerts and events at Wells Fargo Arena, which was opened in 2005 (Before WFA, we drove to Hilton Coliseum in Ames).

Some other big events that occur in Des Moines include:

Des Moines Des Moines Arts Festival (one of the top 10 in the country)
Iowa State Fair (ranked as one of the 1000 things in the world you must do before you die)
Winefest
Taste of Des Moines
Iowa Fringe Festival
Gateway Blues Festival
Hy-Vee Triathlon
Drake Relays
Capital City Pride
Iowa Speedway (in nearby Newton)

Museums:
Des Moines Arts Center
Salisbury House
Terrace Hill
Iowa State Historical Building
Iowa Science Center (with IMAX Dome)
Living History Farms

There is a lot more not even mentioned...you can view more at Greater Des Moines Convention and Visitors Bureau.

Also, on sports DMguy30 (we must be related ). DM is a stop on the senior golf tour (PGA Champions Tour, I think they call it). The naysayers will say they're a bunch of geezers, but realistically, with our size what chance do we have of getting a regular PGA tour and seeing Tiger Woods come here every year?

Better than not being on any golf tour list, and these old guys are pretty good, and some big names in golf come here.

Besides, you want to see Tiger Woods come to Iowa every year, wait about 25 years.

[Deselminator]

Originally Posted by DSMGuy

You seem to be pretty sensitive to your handle, considering you probably pulled it out of the air. Maybe it does have sentimental value to you. It just reminds me of Desalamander or something.

Well I wouldn't say that I'm exactly sensitive about my handle...I just don't see them point in calling me Desel...whatever when it would have probably taken you less time and effort just to type my ACTUAL handle. And IMO there probably wasn't any purpose in doing that...unless of course you were making fun of my handle in an effort to try and belittle my arguments.

Originally Posted by DSMGuy

So you're also saying the city of DM is not growing because there "really isn't that much cool stuff to do" and that is why people are moving the the suburbs. I think you may not realize this, but we do cross city boundaries here to do things. It is not like there's a Berlin Wall between DM and the suburbs. There is no checkpoint with armed guards and watchtowers at 63rd St.

I think that you are taking what I'm saying way out of context. First of all, I never actually said that people aren't moving downtown because there isn't that much cool stuff to do, I merely implied that this MIGHT be one possible reason why people would choose to live in the suburbs instead of in Des Moines proper. I would say given all things equal between Des Moines and West Des Moines, many people would choose Des Moines proper because it would be a more convenient location. If Des Moines is as fun and safe as everyone seems to be claiming it is, then why are so many more people choosing the 'burbs instead? Wouldn't at least say 50% of the people moving to the Des Moines metro move to Des Moines proper if all things were equal? Obviously all things are not equal, but still why would someone choose to live in West Des Moines instead where they might realistically have to pay twice as much for a home plus have to drive the extra distance to work or to all the "great amenities" that Des Moines supposedly offers? Yes I realize that an extra 10 minutes to work isn't that big of a deal, but when you add in the fact that you're probably paying at least an extra $50,000 or more for your house to be in West Des Moines, there must be a pretty good reason that many people are choosing that path. I'm pretty sure it's more than tax disparities...because they would have to be pretty large disparities to make that much of an impact. I'm not arguing the point that some people wouldn't still move to the 'burbs regardless of the situation. What I'm arguing is that if Des Moines was really THAT great, many people would most likely choose to live in Des Moines proper rather than in the 'burbs. I don't think that's a preposterous statement to make by any stretch.