Corn based Fuel. Next "gold rush": Iowa? (Des Moines: lease, work)

[futurecitizen]

Jasper[/quote]

Originally Posted by Plains10

Well, that would be putting too many economic eggs in one basket, eh? The ethanol boom is already slowing down. The Wall Street Journal even ran an article on it about 1-2 months ago and they said that ethanol really does not make good economic sense. That should tell you something because economists are usually very optimistic

I agree, Jasper, with the dangers of putting all the eggs in one basket. Why can't Iowa lead in all areas of sustainability? The state is poised to be a leader, rather than a follower, but we need the leadership from the top down. Iowa could innovate with sustainable wind farming incentives and solar investment opportunities and biodiesels of all stripes (and yes, crop rotations), etc. Economic vitality yielded from innovative and diversified investment.

[Chris19]

Very good comment, futurecitizen. This idea applies to other Midwestern states such as South Dakota, Minnesota, and Nebraska. I think that Iowa, with its strong agricultural base and good farmland, would be a great leader in this area and provide inspiration to other Midwestern states such as South Daktoa and Nebraska to follow suit. It would benefit the economies in this part of the country and be beneficial to the United States as a whole.

I support the wind farming and solar ideas. Diversity in rewables and biofuels is a smart way to go. I would like to see the ethanol production require less water and energy to produce. When that gets done, then it can deflate the argument of the ethanol naysayers and be a truely good alternative to kick our oil habit.

I would like to see cars that are electric for shorter distances and for speeds such as 35/45 and under and use ethanol for longer distances and higer speeds. The electric power would come from wind power and solor power along with cleaner coal techonologies. I would lke to see the use of cellulosic ethanol (from corn stocks, wood chips, grasses) to be commercially viable and used for ethanol production. This has a potential of improving the efficiency and ability of ethanol to be a viable energy source.

Geothermal energy is a good option in some areas for heating. A school district near Sioux Falls, SD is looking into using geothermal energy for heating of the high school. This may be a high initial investment but may pay for itself over time with lower utility bills.

[bigjim]

Ethanol, or methanol, or butanol, has a lot of potential, but corn is about the worst thing you could possibly make it from.

The corn ethanol boom is largely because of the extremely well-funded lobbyists in that industry.

Ethanol can have a place, definitely, but it will have to switch to a more efficient plant like switchgrass, or sugar cane/beets, or one of a few others.

[jasperhobbs]

I think fossil fuel gas will always be primary source for vehicles. The key is lowering consumption and better MPG will do that. Rumor has it in 2009 Toyota Prius is coming out with 100 MPG hybrid.

Hybrid technology may be the answer. Although most Americans will not go to smaller cars to achive that high of MPG.

Jasper

Originally Posted by bigjim

Ethanol, or methanol, or butanol, has a lot of potential, but corn is about the worst thing you could possibly make it from.

The corn ethanol boom is largely because of the extremely well-funded lobbyists in that industry.

Ethanol can have a place, definitely, but it will have to switch to a more efficient plant like switchgrass, or sugar cane/beets, or one of a few others.

[JMZ]

Ultimately, the problem is development. The only people making any money on ethenol would be the producers. We as a state have not seen any reduction in fuel prices even though we support a very large partion to ethenol production. Gold rush era is definately not in Iowa's future. These fortunes are not available to just anyone, only the land owners and the e-plants therefore we will not have a rush of people to this area. We also send the majority of product out West, because of transportation and logistical issues the avarage Iowan will not see a dime.

[gyrogearcrunch]

Originally Posted by jasperhobbs

I am against using a food source for gasoline. Corn prices have shot up which is great for farmers but look at all the food products made from corn that have gone up too. Plus E85 is a joke. Sure it is cheaper per gallon than regular or 10% ethanol but you get less miles per gallon so what is the point? It is better for the environment but most people wont buy E85 for that reason.

I am in favor of ethanol that can be produced from switch grass. Switch grass can be grown just anywhere in the country in land that was previously deemed useless from crop production. Canada is leading the way with researching switch grass as fuel source.

Another rumor is Toyota Prius is going to come out with 100 MPG hybrid in 2009. I am more in favor of cars that get better MPG and use less fossil fuel or cellulose (Example:switch grass) ethanol powered vehicles than using corn as a source.

As someone posted earlier, many of the corn ethanol plants will go under in the next few years.

Jasper

There are even bigger problems than just converting food into fuel. The February 2008 issue of Popular Mechanics says on page 54 that "The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, passed by the House in December, would mandate CORN ETHANOL usage of 15 billion gal. a year (more than three times today's consumption) by 2015). "

There is NO EVIDENCE that this legislation has been studied by any engineer or scientist prior to rushing the Act to congress for approval (sound familiar?). However, it IS KNOWN that as far back as 30 years ago, Congressmen and Senators were quietly buying up stock in the huge AgriBusiness conglomerates. So, it appears that what we have here with ethanol is just the same old business as usual (think lobbyists).

Let's return to that article cited above: "Skeptics cite the research of Cornell University professor David Pimentel, who estimates that it takes approximately 1.3 gal. of oil to produce a single gallon of Ethanol."

In addition, the article says that to replace JUST THE OIL WE IMPORT, it would take roughly 95% of the active farmland in the country. WHERE WILL THE FOOD COME FROM?

So, it looks to me that even the most cursory examination done by an academic reveals that the math does not support the Administration's enthusiastic rush to disaster with ethanol!!

This may be the time to see whose names are on the shares of the big Agri-Businesses. Perhaps that would make a case for charging the administration with a conflict of interest, if not with outright treason.

[katychicago]

Most don't have too much faith in the ethenol project since it was announced that ethanol doesn't burn any cleaner than regular gasoline and that it takes a considerable amount of regular oil to produce it. The switchgrass plan failed as well - but maybe that was just becausehe ethanol lobbyists )farmers) had more money - more clout - Look this information up on the internet - it's interesting.

[katychicago]

Glad I'm not the only one who has been following the ethanol SCAM - Unfortunately, this is typical of Iowa - my bet is the Iowa media has done everything they can to keep this information from the people in Iowa. Another scam is that big park they are trying to build on Lake Rathbun - the water quality of that Lake is so poor it's not fit for swimming or fishing, let alone drinking. Also, they found a boat with those dreaded zebra clams hanging on it last season. That was quickly hushed by the press.

I don't know how they are going to keep this information on the QT. Eventually someone from out of state is going to figure out that they get around it by not testing the water for years at a time (arsenic not tested since 2004 - it's on the DNR reports on the internet but the papers won't print it. Also, they are buying and selling water districts that use the area so the testing can take place at the lake instead of at the tap end which is where all the kids are getting lead poisoning - due to the high chloramine levelsin the water in an attempt to clean up the pig feces. The lead levels coming out of tap water leached by the chlorine is ridiculous. Check the facts. Good luck Iowa.

Originally Posted by gyrogearcrunch

There are even bigger problems than just converting food into fuel. The February 2008 issue of Popular Mechanics says on page 54 that "The Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, passed by the House in December, would mandate CORN ETHANOL usage of 15 billion gal. a year (more than three times today's consumption) by 2015). "

There is NO EVIDENCE that this legislation has been studied by any engineer or scientist prior to rushing the Act to congress for approval (sound familiar?). However, it IS KNOWN that as far back as 30 years ago, Congressmen and Senators were quietly buying up stock in the huge AgriBusiness conglomerates. So, it appears that what we have here with ethanol is just the same old business as usual (think lobbyists).

Let's return to that article cited above: "Skeptics cite the research of Cornell University professor David Pimentel, who estimates that it takes approximately 1.3 gal. of oil to produce a single gallon of Ethanol."

In addition, the article says that to replace JUST THE OIL WE IMPORT, it would take roughly 95% of the active farmland in the country. WHERE WILL THE FOOD COME FROM?

So, it looks to me that even the most cursory examination done by an academic reveals that the math does not support the Administration's enthusiastic rush to disaster with ethanol!!

This may be the time to see whose names are on the shares of the big Agri-Businesses. Perhaps that would make a case for charging the administration with a conflict of interest, if not with outright treason.

[katychicago]

What makes you think anyone in Iowa benefits from Ethanol besides the big guys? You must be a farmer. Not only do Iowa farmers get huge SUBSIDIES - a fancy word for welfare, but now they have this ethanol scam raising the price of their product. It's really sad.

Geothermal heat is the way to go. Although the intitial investment is steep - in the long run, it's the best. My bills this winter never went over $140 for a three story, five bedroom, three bath house. In the summer - with central air, my bills hovered at around $70.

Originally Posted by Chris19

Very good comment, futurecitizen. This idea applies to other Midwestern states such as South Dakota, Minnesota, and Nebraska. I think that Iowa, with its strong agricultural base and good farmland, would be a great leader in this area and provide inspiration to other Midwestern states such as South Daktoa and Nebraska to follow suit. It would benefit the economies in this part of the country and be beneficial to the United States as a whole.

I support the wind farming and solar ideas. Diversity in rewables and biofuels is a smart way to go. I would like to see the ethanol production require less water and energy to produce. When that gets done, then it can deflate the argument of the ethanol naysayers and be a truely good alternative to kick our oil habit.

I would like to see cars that are electric for shorter distances and for speeds such as 35/45 and under and use ethanol for longer distances and higer speeds. The electric power would come from wind power and solor power along with cleaner coal techonologies. I would lke to see the use of cellulosic ethanol (from corn stocks, wood chips, grasses) to be commercially viable and used for ethanol production. This has a potential of improving the efficiency and ability of ethanol to be a viable energy source.

Geothermal energy is a good option in some areas for heating. A school district near Sioux Falls, SD is looking into using geothermal energy for heating of the high school. This may be a high initial investment but may pay for itself over time with lower utility bills.

[katychicago]

Thumbs up - somebody is doing their homework