Light Rail In Des Moines? (Cedar Rapids: car, parking, business)

[iowegian]

Originally Posted by SharpHawkeye

Or do we need to build light rail to encourage denser building? It's almost a chicken and the egg argument...

While I agree with Chicago60614, I think there is a lot of truth to this as well. I think light rail would be an attractive feature to young professionals or other people relocating from urban areas. I think it's great that Des Moines is at least thinking of ways to improve and I think it would be really cool to be able to ride light rail to the fairgrounds during the Fair, or to downtown. However, I wonder if a busway system (like the one in Pittsburgh) might be more cost-efficient, considering how spread out the Des Moines metro is.

If Little Rock can do it, (and Iowa City-Cedar Rapids was at least sort of considering it) then Des Moines probably can too. I just hope that if they decide to do it, they make sure to plan it so that it gets used. For example, running a line to Drake would definitely improve ridership as college students would probably be more likely than the average DM-ite to take a train downtown for entertainment.

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

True, but they're not really true light rail in a sense of commuters and rush hour service, etc.

Kenosha's system is a heritage system about 1.5 miles long that does a loop from the Metra Station through downtown. It gives around 3,000 rider per month. Most decent light rail systems give at least 30,000 or more rides per day.

Little Rock's is a heritage line as well, and had 200,000 rides in a year. A few hundred a day.

Not dissing them, but when you talk about light rail you think more of the systems in St. Louis, Portland or San Fran

Well that was my point. I don't really know Des Moines at all, though, but i was under the assumption Des Moines' proposed system would serve a similar function to Little Rock...primarily to move people around the core with minimal O&M and implementation costs. If the idea is to create something as extensive as the cities you mentioned, then that's quite a different story.

Incidentally, with the comparisons to Tampa...they have their own streetcar: TECO. But it's pretty bare bones and probably won't expand for quite some time.

[thatguy1]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

I remember seeing a list somewhere about cities Des Moines claims to be taller than.

Yet, not even Des Moines, can outdo the Alpha World Major City of Omaha.

Yeah right, nice try Ronald, it was probably your list you are speaking of.

[thatguy1]

Originally Posted by MastermindDSM

Well lets remember it took Omaha 11 years to catch up to Des Moines, and I am sure they had 801 Grand in mind when determining how high to go. Official sizes: 801 Grand: 192 meters -First National: 192.9 meters. Not quite 3 feet!

Actually I think their goal to beat was the One Kansas City Place tower. I think FN is only a foot or two taller than that building.

Either way, I think that's a bit petty when constructing a 200million dollar building (or whatever the hell it cost)

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by bluevelo

I've live in Sacramento, where they've had light rail for 20+ years.

Its been a COMPLETE failure here. It hasn't stopped suburban sprawl, or kept the downtown from falling apart. There has been no advantage taken of the area around the LRT stations to develop them with housing and employment.... what has happened is it almost exclusively serves Section 8 housing which is gang-infested. Every other week they're hauling some banger off the train with a gun. Inadequate security, etc.

DSM metro does have not have the density to support mass transit other than offering it as a social service to those who have no other way to get around. Anything more than a basic bus system is a HUGE waste of money.

This illustrates why government should not be in control of mass transit.

FYI - streetcars / rail were the instigators of "suburban sprawl" (1900s version).

Though it appears that the rail system "failed" for 20 years, and was implemented to serve the "wrong clientele", consider what will happen in the near future when (a) gasoline prices exceed $5 / gallon, or (b) importation of petroleum is impaired - affecting 70% of the supply.

Before petroleum's rise, there were boats and railroads.
After petroleum's demise, there will be boats and electric railroads.
Plan accordingly.

[MastermindDSM]

Lets clear this up once and for all, it is a streetcar or tram that would serve downtown. This is not a Light Rail project such as what is in Minneapolis.

Maybe us Des Moinesers like to think we are bigger than we are, but is there any hurt in that? Keep in mind for a Metro of its size Des Moines has a very high number of workers downtown (70,000+) and has approximately 10,000 downtown residents.

[tablemtn]

There are also advantages to starting a system when a city is smaller, getting the rights-of-way and routes together (these things take time), then expand the system as required, rather than starting later and racing to build something in a big, expensive hurry.

That's how you end up with regret, and your kids asking why in the hell didn't our parents have the foresight to build this stuff earlier???

[RonnieJonez]

I never started this stupid, unrealistic topic and would like my name removed from it.

Tomorrow you guys can speculate on DSM hosting the 2020 Olympics.

[ragerunner1]

Des Moines has more than enough urban/downtown meat on it to support a streetcar system. I would agree that light rail to the suburban areas doesn't have the numbers at this time.

Streetcars are more about moving people in a centralized area and stimulating economic development along its route. This is were the return on the investment for streetcar systems plays out.

Light rail is more about transportation and TOD development at a station.

[Fearringtonflash]

During the first half of the 20th century, there was an interurban rain line form DSM to Perry, I believe.