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Old 07-03-2016, 10:22 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Look closely at this part.



Are you aware of the severity of the punishments for those convicted of such crimes? Do you really believe that facing severe penalties for committing such, promotes them?

You are not going to learn much about Islam simply by reading the Qur'an and Ahadith. Especially the interpretations and opinions of those opposed to Islam. One needs to learn more about the laws and traditions actually adhered to by most Muslims.

Islam is probably the only religion that grants rights to women, encourages the freeing of slaves and limits the number of wives a man is permitted to have. It also is probably the only religion that establishes a minimum age for marriage by requiring that both male and female must be physically, mentally and financially capable of fulfilling the requirements of marriage before they can enter into a Nikkah (Marriage contract).
There are not severe punishments! Muhammed had sex with a little child and the word of your allah says:

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
Qur'an 33:21

If the Qur'an is true and Muhammad is the model of "a beautiful pattern of conduct," we should be able to examine his life and see what this pattern of conduct looks like, so we can also model it.

And if we read about Muhammed, he was a monster. Raped a child, let his men mass rape women after slaughtering their husbands, sons, fathers and brothers. Then he sold or enslaved them. Or passed them out like party favors. He had people slaughtered if they wrote poetry making fun of him. He owned and traded slaves, hit his child bride, etc. All documented in Islamic writings.

The quran is a cesspool of hate.

I HAVE READ IT. So why would you think you can tell me I did not read what I did read?

I don't know why you refuse to admit what is in the quran. It's so weird.

Grants rights to women? Laughable. Women in societies governed by sharia are denied even basic rights. How many husbands are women allowed to have?
Women's Rights Under Sharia

Do you really think my life would be the same if I lived in a Muslim country? Get real!

Encourages the freeing of slaves? Islam was the leader in slavery! Islam institutionalized slavery. Muhammad began to take slaves after he moved to Medina, and had power. Give me ONE verse in the quran that says slavery is evil and to stop such a thing.

33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you (FOR SCREWING!) your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives]

The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]

It is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place.

And why are Muslims coming to western countries and demanding welfare??

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...-cash-welfare/

Poor Abused Muslims in Belgium Make up 5% of Population Yet Consume 40-60% of Welfare

Muslim Immigrants Draining European Social Benefits*
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:34 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Look closely at this part.



Are you aware of the severity of the punishments for those convicted of such crimes? Do you really believe that facing severe penalties for committing such, promotes them?

You are not going to learn much about Islam simply by reading the Qur'an and Ahadith. Especially the interpretations and opinions of those opposed to Islam. One needs to learn more about the laws and traditions actually adhered to by most Muslims.

Islam is probably the only religion that grants rights to women, encourages the freeing of slaves and limits the number of wives a man is permitted to have. It also is probably the only religion that establishes a minimum age for marriage by requiring that both male and female must be physically, mentally and financially capable of fulfilling the requirements of marriage before they can enter into a Nikkah (Marriage contract).
Do i believe you
or believe what is written in your books
Koran and Islamic books
Do i believe you
and My mind canceled it ????
a woman in Islam
Do not enjoy equality with men
Many texts
From the Koran
Inheritance
In divorce
And wife-beating
And Altjehah or the analyst
You really do not know the good of Islam
You have to freelancing Wafa Sultan and you know why freed from Islam
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Old 07-04-2016, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
There are not severe punishments! Muhammed had sex with a little child and the word of your allah says:

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
Qur'an 33:21

If the Qur'an is true and Muhammad is the model of "a beautiful pattern of conduct," we should be able to examine his life and see what this pattern of conduct looks like, so we can also model it.

And if we read about Muhammed, he was a monster. Raped a child, let his men mass rape women after slaughtering their husbands, sons, fathers and brothers. Then he sold or enslaved them. Or passed them out like party favors. He had people slaughtered if they wrote poetry making fun of him. He owned and traded slaves, hit his child bride, etc. All documented in Islamic writings.

The quran is a cesspool of hate.

I HAVE READ IT. So why would you think you can tell me I did not read what I did read?

I don't know why you refuse to admit what is in the quran. It's so weird.

Grants rights to women? Laughable. Women in societies governed by sharia are denied even basic rights. How many husbands are women allowed to have?
Women's Rights Under Sharia

Do you really think my life would be the same if I lived in a Muslim country? Get real!

Encourages the freeing of slaves? Islam was the leader in slavery! Islam institutionalized slavery. Muhammad began to take slaves after he moved to Medina, and had power. Give me ONE verse in the quran that says slavery is evil and to stop such a thing.

33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you (FOR SCREWING!) your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives]

The Quran also instructs Muslims NOT to force their female slaves into prostitution (24:34), and even allows Muslims to marry slaves if they so desire (4:24), and to free them at times as a penalty for crime or sin (4:92, 5:89, 58:3) and even allows slaves to buy their liberty, if they meet certain of their master's conditions (24:33). [90:10 'freeing of a bondsman' refers to Muslims ransoming other Muslims who were slaves of non-Muslims.]

It is tragic that Islam allows them to be enslaved in the first place.

And why are Muslims coming to western countries and demanding welfare??

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.c...-cash-welfare/

Poor Abused Muslims in Belgium Make up 5% of Population Yet Consume 40-60% of Welfare

Muslim Immigrants Draining European Social Benefits*
World wide variations of slavery exist only it is now called minimum wage employment.

http://liberalarts.utexas.edu/iupra/...8.14_FINAL.pdf

Anti-Slavery - Domestic Work and Slavery

How much different is low-wage work from slavery? - LA Times


There is nothing in most religious scripture that forbids slavery. Islam is probably the only religion that promotes the freeing of slaves. Keep in mind that every Nation at various times has legalized some form of slavery.

You are looking at the Qur'an as being commands. To look at how Muslims actually live Islam one needs to look at the laws defined in the Madhabs and in the laws of the 49 Islamic nations. also be aware that Islam rquires Muslims to live by the laws of the nation they live in, even if they live in non-Islamic Nations.


Point to any religious non-Islamic Scripture that grants any rights to women? In the US women were considered personal property nor were permitted to own personal property in the US until the mid 1800's or even later

Women and the Law in Early 19th Century - Conner Prairie Interactive History Park

Husband and Wife legal definition of Husband and Wife

Equality, Property, and Marriage

Yet Islam provided property rights for woman, along with the rights to vote and hold public office since the inception of Islam

https://mic.com/articles/29739/belie...hts#.3MbOVvKf3

Women's Liberation through Islam

However keep in mind that from the 1500s and well into the 1900s most Islamic Nations fell under British, Dutch, French, Spanish or Portuguese colonialism and all Muslims lost all rights until they regained independence.

As for Muslims being on welfare that is not the result of Islam. Here in the US Muslims have a high rate of employment and have above average incomes.

Quote:
U.S. Average income is $42,158 per year (U.S. Census 2000)
66% of American Muslim HH's earn over $50,000 / year
26% of American Muslim HH's earn over $100,000 / year
AMERICAN MUSLIM DEMOGRAPHICS - MUSLIM AMERICAN POPULATIONS OUTREACH PROGRAMS
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Old 08-01-2016, 05:33 AM
 
1 posts, read 263 times
Reputation: 10
While a soul has a gender in its spirtual form, I do not believe that a soul has a physical gender. Nowhere does it say that all the men will enjoy female virgins.
The companions should not be associated to a physical gender and the pleasure with that companion shouldnt be associated to sex neither should we imagine ourselves as having the same physical attributes that we have now. (You think a less than perfect body will be the same in paradise?).
I think our physical form will be different than what it is (male and female to have the same form). Our mind is not created powerful enough to comprehend the Holy knowldge or to foresee the exact nature of life till eternity. Our minds are not even powerful enough to compute eternity. So let some imaginations be left to faith.
Now to answer the question, why do we need to look forward to the paradise and follow the righteous path to achieve it rather than loving the creator unconditionally... Why do we expect wages after a hard day at work? Why do we expect a degree after spending the requires time in the classroom and passing all the tests? Shouldnt we go to school just for education purposes and not worry about a degree? Shouldnt we just work for the fun of it and not expect wages?
Ofcourse we can and some people do it. Believers and non believers need to know that what is in store for them if they follow the right path or the wrong path...
Why is there punishment for a crime in this world? To scare people....
Why is there reward for doing a good deed? To encourage people....
We all know that this life is finite. And what if there is no God and we just are doing good deeds for no reason??? This is a common question that I hear. My answer is...then we just did the good deeds and followed a religious structure till we died and nothing will happen afterwards.
My question to those people is...manmade or not But what if there is a God? What if we have a life after this? Wouldnt you be glad you believed in a creator and aimed to please him?

And Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not rape a child. This is a false propaganda. Yes he had a wife who was 12 at the time of the marriage but please understand that in those times and in that era,the growth rate and the maturity rate is a lot faster than recently. Also please pay attention to the fact that a female gets her first period around that age and can reproduce thereafter scientifically and physically. Why isnt it around 18 years when a female gets her forst period? Did you not think about that? If you have travelled to other parts of the world you will immediately see the difference in the size and stature of a teenager than in usa or most europe. Different races even grow differently at different rates within the same age group.
No one is allowed to have sex with another male or female without marriage so rape is a pretty far fetched concept. You guys really need to get your information from trusted literary sources rather than internet memes and bogus websites which are written by people with false information.
Muhammad's PBUH life was examplary and righteous. Its sad that people are out there to spread misleading information but people will always be there to do that. People with wisdom will seek out the truth.
As far as women rights are concerned, physically and socially women have had different roles than a male. This is just common sense. The family is extended by the male and not a female (you females change your last name to your husbands in almost every culture). In modern society most women have given up their roles as a mother or a nurturer and have become a provider (single mothers and feminists). I am all for that. If you want to stand up and pee in the urinals, you can. Because men do it. Isnt it unfair of God to even make women? Why wouldnt there be just one gender? So we dont have to pick and choose which religion and society's gender roles do we like better as per our convenience....
This could be a long discussion and all I really ask for the readers to do is...use common sense.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:03 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
Reputation: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolvenomus View Post
And Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not rape a child. This is a false propaganda.
Hogwash.

Muhammed married Aisha when she was six years old and started having sex with her when she was nine years old according to MANY Islamic sources:

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)


Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

SAHIH MUSLIM

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; see also 3310)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was six years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

SUNAN ABU DAWUD

Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.(Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him),and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4915)

SUNAN NASA‘I

… When Hadrat Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness… ‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven. She saw the rules of four Caliphs in her lifetime. She died on Ramadan 58 A.H. during the Caliphate of Hadrat Amir Mu‘awiya… (Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text, compiled by Imam Abu Abd-ur-Rahman Ahmad Nasa'i, rendered into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui [Kazi Publication, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore, Pakistan; first edition, 1994], Volume 1, p. 108)

SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH

1876. ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said: Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) contracted marriage with me while I was (yet) a six years [sic] old girl. Then we arrived at Medina and stayed with Banu Harith b. Khazraj. I fell victim to fever; then my hair (of the head fell off (and became scattered). Then they became plenty and hanged down upto [sic] the earlobes. My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to me while I was (playing) in a swing alongwith [sic] my play-mates. She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother) entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) (when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me to him. On that day, I was a nine years [sic] old girl."

1877. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said, "The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) married ‘A’isha while she was a seven years [sic] old girl and took him [sic] to his house as a bride when she was nine years old and he parted with her (after his demise) when she was eighteen years old."

According to Al-Zawa‘id its isnad is sahih in accordance with the condition prescribed by Bukhari, but munqata because Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father. Shu‘ba Abu Hatim and Ibn Hibban mentioned him amongst the authentic and reliable authorities. Tirmidhi in al-Jami’ and al-Mazzi in al-Atraf (has expressed the same opinion). Nasa‘i has transmitted this hadith in al-Sughra from the hadith ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sunan Ibn-I-Majah, Imam Abdullah Muhammad B. Yazid Ibn-I-Maja Al-Qazwini, English version by Muhammad Tufail Ansari [Kazi Publications, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore Pakistan, first edition, 1995], volume III, pp. 133-134)

IBN HISHAM

He married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 792)

AL-TABARI

In this year also the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623) seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts, seven years old.

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

Umm Ruman said that al-Mut‘im b. ‘Adi had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand for his son, but Abu Bakr had not promised anything. Abu Bakr left and went to Mut‘im while his wife, mother of the son for whom he had asked ‘A’ishah’s hand, was with him. She said, "O son of Abu Quhafah, perhaps we could marry our son to your daughter if you could make him leave his religion and bring him in to the religion which you practice." He turned to her husband al-Mut‘im and said, "What is she saying?" He replied, "She says [what you have heard]." Abu Bakr left, [realizing that] God had [just] removed the problem he had in his mind. He said to Khawlah, "Call the Messenger of God." She called him and he came. Abu Bakr married [‘A’ishah] to him when she was [only] six years old. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Last Years of the Prophet, translated and annotated by Ismail K. Poonawala [State University of New York Press, Albany 1990], Volume IX, pp. 129-130)

‘A’ishah states: We came to Medina and Abu Bakr took up quarters in al-Sunh among the Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. The Messenger of God came to our house and men and women of the Ansar gathered around him. My mother came to me WHILE I WAS BEING SWUNG ON A SWING BETWEEN TWO BRANCHES AND GOT ME DOWN. Jumaymah, my nurse, took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door, she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought [in] while the Messenger of God was sitting on a bed in our house. [My mother] made me sit on his lap and said, "These are your relatives. May God bless you with them and bless them with you!" Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me. Only Sa‘d b. ‘Ubaidah sent a bowl of food which he used to send to the Messenger of God.

‘Ali b. Nasr- ‘Abd al-Samad b. ‘Abd al-Warith- ‘Abd al-Warith b. ‘Abd al-Samad- his father- Aban al-‘Attar- Hisham b. ‘Urwah- ‘Urwah: He wrote to ‘Abd al-Malik b. Marwan stating that he had written to him about Khadijah bt. Khuwaylid, asking him about when she died. She died three years or close to that before the Messenger of God’s departure from Mecca, and he married ‘A’ishah after Khadijah’s death. The Messenger of God saw ‘A’ishah twice- [first when] it was said to him that she was his wife (she was six years old at that time), and later [when] he consummated she was nine years old.

(The report goes back to Hisham b. Muhammad. See above, I, 1766). Then the Messenger of God married ‘A’ishah bt. Abi Bakr, whose name is ‘Atiq b. Abi Quhafah, who is ‘Uthman, and is called ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Uthman b. ‘Amir b. ‘Amir b. Ka‘b b. Sa‘d b. Taym b. Murrah: [The Prophet] married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old, and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died. The Messenger of God did not marry any maiden except her. (The History of al-Tabari, Volume IX, pp. 130-131)

‘A’ishah, daughter of Abu Bakr.
Her mother was Umm Ruman bt. ‘Umayr b. ‘Amr, of the Banu Duhman b. al-Harith b. Ghanm b. Malik b. Kinanah.
The Prophet married ‘A’ishah in Shawwal in the tenth year after the [beginning of his] prophethood, three years before Emigration. He consummated the marriage in Shawwal, eight months after Emigration. On the day he consummated the marriage with her she was nine years old.

IBN KATHIR

Yunus b. Bukayr stated, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father who said, "The Messenger of God (SAAS) married ‘A’isha three years after (the death of) Khadija.At that time (of the contract) ‘A’isha had been a girl of six. When he married her she was nine. The Messenger of God (SAAS) died when ‘A’isha was a girl of eighteen. "

This tradition is considered gharib (unique in this line).

Al-Bukhari had related, from ‘Ubayd b. Isma‘il, from Abu Usama, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, who said, "Khadija died three years before the emigration of the Prophet (SAAS). He allowed a couple of years or so to pass after that, and then he contracted marriage with ‘A’isha when she was six, thereafter consummating marriage with her when she was nine years old."

The hafiz Ya‘qub b. Sufyan stated, "Al-Hajjaj related to us, that Hammad related to him, from Hisham b. ‘Urwa, from his father, from ‘A’isha, who said, ‘The Messenger of God (SAAS), contracted marriage with me (after) Khadija’s death and before his emigration from Mecca, when I was six years old. After we arrived in Medina some women came to me while I was playing on a swing; my hair was like that of a boy. They dressed me up and put make-up on me, then took me to the Messenger of God (SAAS), and he consummated our marriage. I was a girl of nine.’"

IBN QAYYIM

Next, the Prophet… married Um Abdallah, Aishah, as-Siddiqah (the truthful one), daughter of as-Siddiq (the truthful one) Abu Bakr ibn Abi Qu’hafah, whom Allah has exonerated from above the seven heavens. ‘Aishah bint Abu Bakr was the beloved wife of the Prophet… The angel showed Aishah… to the Prophet… while she was wrapped in a piece of silk cloth, before he married her, and said to him. "This is your wife." The Prophet… married Aishah… during the lunar month of Shawwal, when she was six, and consummated the marriage in the first year after the Hijrah, in the month of Shawwal, when she was nine. The Prophet… did not marry any virgin, except Aishah… and the revelation never came to him while he was under the blanket with any of his wives, except Aishah. (Ibn Qayyim Al-Juaziyyah, Zad-ul Ma’ad fi Hadyi Khairi-l ‘Ibad (Provisions for the Hereafter, From the Guidance of Allah’s Best Worshipper), translated by Jalal Abualrub, edited by Alaa Mencke & Shaheed M. Ali [Madinah Publishers & Distributors, Orlando, Fl: First edition, December 2000], Volume I, pp. 157-158)

MARTIN LINGS

During the same year that followed Khadijah’s death, the Prophet dreamed that he saw a man who was carrying someone wrapped in a piece of silk. The man said to him: "This is thy wife, so uncover her." The Prophet lifted the silk and there was ‘A’ishah. But ‘A’ishah was only six years old, and he had passed his fiftieth year. Moreover Abu Bakr had promised her to Mut‘im for his son Jubayr. The Prophet simply said to himself: "If this be from God, He will bring it to pass." …

Meantime Abu Bakr approached Mut‘im, who was persuaded without difficulty to forgo the marriage of ‘A’ishah to his son; and, some months after the marriage of Sawdah, ‘A’ishah also became the Prophet’s wife, through a marriage contracted by him and her father, at which she herself was not present. She said afterwards, that she had her first inkling of her new status when one day she was playing with her friends outside, not far from their house, and her mother came and too her by the hand and led her indoors, telling her that henceforth she must not go out to play, and that her friends must come to her instead. ‘A’ishah dimly guessed the reason, though her mother did not immediately tell her that she was married; and apart from having to play in their courtyard instead of in the roads, her life continued as before. (Lings, Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources [Inner Traditions, International, Ltd.; Rochester Vermont, 1983], pp. 105-106)

The Prophet and his daughters now went to live with Sawda in her new house; and after a month or two it was decided that ‘A’ishah’s wedding should take place.She was then only nine years old, a child of remarkable beauty, as might have been expected from her parentage…

Small preparations were made for the wedding- not enough, at any rate for ‘A’ishah to have had a sense of a great and solemn occasion, and shortly before they were due to leave the house she had slipped out into the courtyard to play with her passing friend. In her own words: "I was playing on a see-saw and my long streaming hair was disheveled. They came and took me from my play and made me ready."

Abu Bakr had bought some fine red-striped cloth from Bahrain and it had been made into a wedding-dress for her. In this they now clothed her. Then her mother took her to the newly built house where some women of the Helpers were waiting for her outside the door. They greeted her with the words "For good and for happiness- may all be well!" and led her into the presence of the Prophet. He stood their smiling and combed her hair and decked her with ornaments. Unlike his other marriages, at this there was no wedding feast… then they all went their ways, and the bridegroom and the bride were left together.

For the last three years scarcely a day had passed by without one or more of ‘A’ishah’s friends coming to play with her in the courtyard adjoining her father’s house. Her removal to the Prophet’s house changed nothing in this respect. Friends now came every day to visit her in her own apartment – new friends made since her arrival in Medina and also some of the old ones whose parents, like hers, had emigrated. "I would be playing with my dolls," she said, "with the girls who were my friends, and the Prophet would come in and they would steal out of the house and he would go out after them and bring them back, for he was pleased for my sake to have them there." Sometimes he would say "Stay where ye are" before they had time to move. He would also join in their games sometimes, FOR HE LOVED CHILDREN [Sam- meaning Aisha was only a child like them] and had often played with his own daughters. The dolls of puppets had many different roles. "One day," said ‘A’ishah, "the Prophet came in when I was playing with the dolls and he said: ‘O ‘A’ishah, whatever game is this?’ I said: ‘It is Solomon’s horses,’ and he laughed." But sometimes as he came in he would simply screen himself with his cloak so as not to disturb them. (Ibid., pp. 132-134)

SAIF-UR-RAHMAN AL-MUBARAKPURI

3. 'Aishah bint Abu Bakr: He married her in the eleventh year of Prophethood, a year after his marriage to Sawdah, and two years and five months before Al-Hijra.She was six years old when he married her. However, he did not consummate the marriage with her till Shawwal seven months after Al-Hijra, and that was in Madinah. She was nine then. She was the only virgin he married, and the most beloved creature to him. As a woman she was the most learnèd woman in jurisprudence. (Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (THE SEALED NECTAR) Biography of the Noble Prophet, [Maktaba Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, First Edition 1995], "The Prophetic Household", p. 485)
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:26 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolvenomus View Post
but please understand that in those times and in that era,the growth rate and the maturity rate is a lot faster than recently. Also please pay attention to the fact that a female gets her first period around that age and can reproduce thereafter scientifically and physically. Why isnt it around 18 years when a female gets her forst period? Did you not think about that? If you have travelled to other parts of the world you will immediately see the difference in the size and stature of a teenager than in usa or most europe. Different races even grow differently at different rates within the same age group.
No one is allowed to have sex with another male or female without marriage so rape is a pretty far fetched concept. You guys really need to get your information from trusted literary sources rather than internet memes and bogus websites which are written by people with false information.
Muhammad's PBUH life was examplary and righteous. Its sad that people are out there to spread misleading information but people will always be there to do that. People with wisdom will seek out the truth.
Girls did not mature at a much faster rate. That is total garbage. And Aisha was still playing with dolls and swinging with her playmates when Muhammed started raping her.

"Adolescent girls reach puberty today at earlier ages than were ever recorded previously. Nutritional and other environmental influences may be responsible for this change. For example, the average age of the onset of menstrual periods in girls was 15 in 1900. By the 1990s, this average had dropped to 12 and a half years of age."


You need to do some research. Puberty is a PROCESS (and it is pretty certain that Aisha had not even had her first period when Muhammed started raping her). The PROCESS of puberty includes mental and physical changes....more than just a first period. You seem to think as soon as a little girl has her first period she wants much older men (in their 50's!! and older!!!) to start screwing her!! That is just crazy and sick. Try this: Go into a room of 4th grade girls and pull down their panties and start shoving your erect penis into them. See if they like it. Are you a pedophile?

"What is puberty?

Puberty is the period during which growing boys or girls undergo the process of sexual maturation. Puberty involves a series of physical stages or steps that lead to the achievement of fertility and the development of the so-called secondary sex characteristics, the physical features associated with adult males and females (such as the growth of pubic hair). While puberty involves a series of biological or physical transformations, the process can also have an effect on the psychosocial and emotional development of the adolescent.

When does puberty occur?

The onset of puberty varies among individuals. Puberty usually occurs in girls between the ages of 10 and 14, while in boys it generally occurs later, between the ages of 12 and 16. In some African-American girls, puberty begins earlier, at about age 9, meaning that puberty occurs from ages 9 to 14."
Puberty: Stages & Signs for Boys & Girls

Was Aisha African? No.

I have traveled to many parts of the world and there is no big difference between young girls.

I have had to work with little girls who were raped by old men and these poor children are a mess. Their tiny vaginas are ripped apart...some cannot even pee properly. They are terrified of men. Why didn't Aisha have any children?

Muhammed was a sick and sadistic terrorist who would attack villages with his gang, slaughter the men and boys and then watch his men rape the women, and even participate. Imagine a woman being raped by the men who just slaughtered their husbands, fathers, sons!!!!! How evil is this!!!

Then the women would be enslaved or sold.

I don;t know how you can follow such an evil ideology and make excuses for men raping children. And make no mistake, having a sham of a marriage to a six year old and then screwing her does not make it consensual, a word you need to look up.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:27 AM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koolvenomus View Post

Quote:
And Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did not rape a child. This is a false propaganda. Yes he had a wife who was 12 at the time of the marriage but please understand that in those times and in that era,
We did not write about Muhammad
Islamic books are presented Mohammed us
The Koran is a book of Muslims
Koran where Mohammed sexual adventures
For example, his marriage to the daughter-in adoptions
And also a betrayal of Aisha
It Alivk incident
The Koran also granted Muhammad having sex with women
And a lot of morals Mohammed is from the Koran

But the description of paradise in Islam, the Koran is the evidence and proof
And also books that explain the Islamic paradise in Islam, a small nightclub owned by God
Quote:
Muhammad's PBUH life was examplary and righteous. Its sad that people are out there to spread misleading information but people will always be there to do that. People with wisdom will seek out the truth.
.
And either muhammad
Thou you proof
Because people do not slaughter mercy
The booty is not mercy
And the looting of women is not a mercy
Where is the mercy of Prophet
This information is not from the net
She wrote of the Muslims and the Koran
Even before the net know these facts
But posting was limited
Kobe with me a copy of the book talks about these facts
And printed by almost 120 years in the Arabic translation
Put ethics Prophet Muhammad in the balance, and you'll know right
Do not close your heart
Nor conscience
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:30 AM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
World wide variations of slavery exist only it is now called minimum wage employment.

.
Hogwash, as usual.

What is the basic, the essential, the crucial principle that differentiates freedom from slavery? It is the principle of voluntary action versus physical coercion or compulsion.

No one is FORCED to take a minimum wage job. The key fundamental in slavery if FORCE. When offeren a minimum wage job, the applicant is free to walk away. The principle is FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION.

You are completely dropping that context. Try to think in principle.

The other context you drop is the LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. That impacts the wage offered. In fact, there should be no government involvement in setting a wage. That is anti-freedom. Fascism.

That's the principled argument. Pragmatically, we have that businesses often go out of business when the government forces them to pay what workers are not worth. Also, most minimum wage earners do not live in households where their wage is the only wage coming in. Minimum wage is a starting point for workers...skills should be gained and the wage increases.

You are arguing for fascism and equating slavery with freedom of association. That's hogwash.
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
Hogwash, as usual.

What is the basic, the essential, the crucial principle that differentiates freedom from slavery? It is the principle of voluntary action versus physical coercion or compulsion.

No one is FORCED to take a minimum wage job. The key fundamental in slavery if FORCE. When offeren a minimum wage job, the applicant is free to walk away. The principle is FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION.

You are completely dropping that context. Try to think in principle.

The other context you drop is the LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. That impacts the wage offered. In fact, there should be no government involvement in setting a wage. That is anti-freedom. Fascism.

That's the principled argument. Pragmatically, we have that businesses often go out of business when the government forces them to pay what workers are not worth. Also, most minimum wage earners do not live in households where their wage is the only wage coming in. Minimum wage is a starting point for workers...skills should be gained and the wage increases.

You are arguing for fascism and equating slavery with freedom of association. That's hogwash.
The need for food and housing is a very strong compulsive incentive to do menial labor for an obnoxious employer. the average person can not survive without providing services for the wealthy. True to some extent there is a choice as to who one will have as their slave-master, but it still comes down to doing the bidding of a master, although we now call the master our employer.
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