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HAHA your joking right!!?? no wonder ive never heard of him. its because i dont listen to that crap about killing infadels and murdering innocent people because like i say OVER AND OVER AND OVER
ITS NOT PART OF ISLAM!!!!
just because this guy is saying death to "infadels", and you got a girl that wants to kill "infadels", doesnt mean anything more than a few people that are obviously confused or brainwashed. so what you have groups of people that want to to innocent people, that doesnt make it part of islam. SHOW ME IN THE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS IT PERMISSABLE TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE guaranteed you wont find it you know why because AGAIN ITS NOT PART OF THE RELIGION
am i talking to a wall here? you guys have a few video clips of some crayy people that want to kill innocent people and say that its part of islam?
read the bold parts over and over until it finally sinks in... and you have nothing left to say...
just because this guy is saying death to "infadels", and you got a girl that wants to kill "infadels", doesnt mean anything more than a few people that are obviously confused or brainwashed. so what you have groups of people that want to to innocent people, that doesnt make it part of islam. SHOW ME IN THE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS IT PERMISSABLE TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE guaranteed you wont find it you know why because AGAIN ITS NOT PART OF THE RELIGION
Decided to follow the advice in the last video about denying the Sunnas from Mohammed's own mouth as not part of Islam, eh?? Won't work. We are hip to the deception COMMANDED by Allah. You are either a victim of it and it caused your conversion or you are part of the deception campaign.
sukrill: You honestly don't know who Ahmadinejad is? Incredible (in the literal sense: that lacks credibility). Even an infidel like me knows who he is. He's the leader of the "Islamic republic" of Iran, that theocratic bastion of intolerance.
SHOW ME IN THE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS IT PERMISSABLE TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE guaranteed you wont find it you know why because AGAIN ITS NOT PART OF THE RELIGION
Since, according to the quran no unbeliever is considered an innocent, then it is not only permissible but encouraged, but since you asked, here are a few of many verses recommending that very thing.
Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”
2:190-292 “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”
i was going to say from those i know, but this appears to be an info commercial not an invitation to respond. probably the best of paradise is no info commerials, if god speaks to you he will want you to respond.
Since, according to the quran no unbeliever is considered an innocent, then it is not only permissible but encouraged, but since you asked, here are a few of many verses recommending that very thing.
Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority"
this verse is just saying that people who join partners with allah will fear god, i cant remember if this text is meaning on the day of judgement or not but this says nothing about killing innocent people...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
this was only for a certain period of time and is no longer valid. you cant just go kill "disbelievers" anymore. that was only when people were defending themselves because those people its talking about were killing them and burning their villages, etc. its like any war. back in WWII if a person sees the enemy they shoot them down. thats all this is saying but that time has passed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness. and know that Allah is with those who gaurd (against evil)"
you forgot that last part, its pretty important. this is saying that when you fight them they basically will know that you will not submit to them. basically saying to fight back and know that allah is on the side of the righteous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’â€
Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."
i believe your quoting a scholar, which is not in the quran, but id have to hear the whole discussion/lecture to answer this question legitamately. what lecture was this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.â€
well ya. its been that way since the beginning of time. all this is saying is that the "disbelievers" will go to hell... nothing new here, people in the hellfire did not serve their purpose...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
2:190-292 “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.â€
im glad you brought this one up. this is saying for the people to defend themselves. not to kill innocent people but only those who want to fight you... the part where it says and slay them where you find them is like i said before. if your in a war you kill the enemy. you dont kill innocent people...
im glad you brought these verses up though. it gave me a chance to explain to those who dont understand this or misinterpret it the way you have. no offense, you just have to ask and not assume things...
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quote:
this was only for a certain period of time and is no longer valid. you cant just go kill "disbelievers" anymore. that was only when people were defending themselves because those people its talking about were killing them and burning their villages, etc. its like any war. back in WWII if a person sees the enemy they shoot them down. thats all this is saying but that time has passed...
Then why is this still happening?
You explained nothing. All you did was come up with your own rationalizations so you can keep trying to say that the quran doesn't condone killing the innocent. Obviously since no unbeliever is innocent in the eyes of allah, killing anyone, man woman or child is fine as long as they are infidels (unbelievers)
Sukrill, Though I think you'll refrain from honestly answering, I'm now pretty sure you're a young person, probably male, and more than convinced of the righteous honor of Islam. But when presented with hard facts about your country, you attack me for participating in a debate by citing known historical facts about the typical combative modern Islamic attitude. We all hear, at least weekly, about another suicide bomber attack by Muslim extremists. Not Catholic extremists, or atheist extremists, but Muslim extremists. Hmmm..
So sorry; if you choose to come to these fora and discuss such issues, you'll get a sampling of our attitudes and conclusions about your beloved but apparently increasingly demanding and hostile religion. It is very dogmatic and intolerant, that part's well established.
BTW, I politely asked you, on another thread, to name which current, modern Islamic nation you respect, and that embodies Islam as you claim it to be. Pakistan? Iran (whose wack-job and vicious dictator you do not even recognize? You must be very young and ill-read!)? Iraq? Somalia? Nigeria?
Which one? Answer this simple question please.
It is you, in fact, who is sorely lacking in both understanding of Islam, current world politics and the general trend towards terrorism that is so loved by Islamic fundamentalists (which appears now to be most of them..).
(w
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
HAHA your joking right!!?? no wonder ive never heard of him. its because i dont listen to that crap about killing infadels and murdering innocent people because like i say OVER AND OVER AND OVER
Rifleman notes: I agree. You obviously don't read or listen to world media reports else you would not be so defensive about the Islam you do not understand.
ITS NOT PART OF ISLAM!!!! (Well... Yes, it is. your total ignorance of it is no excuse!)
just because this guy is saying death to "infadels", and you got a girl that wants to kill "infadels", doesnt mean anything more than a few people that are obviously confused or brainwashed. so what you have groups of people that want to to kill innocent people, that doesnt make it part of islam. SHOW ME IN THE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS IT PERMISSABLE TO KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE guaranteed you wont find it you know why because...
AGAIN ITS NOT PART OF THE RELIGION
(No, just not as you perceive it. However the majority of Muslims, young and old, preach hostility towards Westerners. This is therefore your religion's huge problem, not ours. It's up to you, even if you have to take a few minutes off work to write a letter to your imam or to Ahmadinejad. He's the dictator-Prez of Iran, again, in case you missed it. He claims the Holocost never happened, and that peace will only come to the ME when Islam eradicates Israel. Nice! Apparently you have been hiding your head in the sand.)
am i talking to a wall here? you guys have a few video clips of some crayy people that want to kill innocent people and say that its part of islam?
You think there's just a few cases? Boy, you do have your head stuck up the camel's butt, huh?
read the bold parts over and over until it finally sinks in... and you have nothing left to say...
If you say so, oh knowledgeable leader and eductor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
this verse is just saying that people who join partners with allah will fear god, i cant remember if this text is meaning on the day of judgement or not but this says nothing about killing innocent people...
Hey; You're the claimed on-site expert on Islam here, so you say. Why don't you know your own wonder-book? Take a moment and look it up like sanspeur did. Far as I know, he's not a Muslim. Why should we do your homework for you? I suspect you're quite lazy as to reading and thinking, else you'd have a much better understanding of your own religion's shortcomings!
this was only for a certain period of time and is no longer valid.
Convenient interpretation! Too bad the suicide bombers didn't attend that new-age peace seminar! Instead, I think they were in the "Semtex & cell phones" presentation next door...
you cant just go kill "disbelievers" anymore. that was only when people were defending themselves because those people its talking about were killing them and burning their villages, etc. its like any war. back in WWII if a person sees the enemy they shoot them down. thats all this is saying but that time has passed...
Apparently not. (Most recently; in New York city; a certain Nissan Pathfinder with Semtex & cell phone. Remember?) That time has not passed according to the nightly news, which as you say, you do not watch. Oh good! So you're purposefully and admittedly illiterate on your own culture and religion. Good!
you forgot that last part, its pretty important. this is saying that when you fight them they basically will know that you will not submit to them. basically saying to fight back and know that allah is on the side of the righteous.
And that's always Islam, right? What was it you said back a few posts? "Someday Islam will rule the world!" Nice!
im glad you brought these verses up though. it gave me a chance to explain to those who dont understand this or misinterpret it the way you have. no offense, you just have to ask and not assume things...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
You explained nothing. All you did was come up with your own rationalizations so you can keep trying to say that the quran doesn't condone killing the innocent. Obviously since no unbeliever is innocent in the eyes of allah, killing anyone, man woman or child is fine as long as they are infidels (unbelievers)
And so it continues. You admit it's OK for you to kill me then. Nice!
Sukrill, you are obviously not a well-read, capable nor informed defender of Islam here. I'd suggest some other more erudite and eloquent debater step in and rescue you before you self-destruct.
Else, I have nothing more to say to you. Said it all already. Your hopeless adhominems against me do nothing to advance your case either, and endless re-stating of the same tired points to just hear yourself babble is not a worthwhile use of your time, and is not very convincing either!
Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Then why is this still happening?
You explained nothing. All you did was come up with your own rationalizations so you can keep trying to say that the quran doesn't condone killing the innocent. Obviously since no unbeliever is innocent in the eyes of allah, killing anyone, man woman or child is fine as long as they are infidels (unbelievers)
haha your joking right? i give you explanations to the verses and then you say im making my own rationalizations? so basically ANY answer i give you your going to say that. why even ask for an explanation then. your the one thats making the verses seem like something theyre not. you misinterpret the verses and i explain it and you say WELL thats your own rationalization... ok i guess. you obviously are in denial. maybe the people who read these same verses and think they still apply today misinterpret them the way you do....
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More commentary, but apparently pointless.
