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Old 06-24-2010, 02:53 PM
 
783 posts, read 706,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Alas... that would be easier to credit were the Banu Quraiza not the final act of a three act ethnic cleansing. The Banu Nadir and Banu Qaynuqa preceded them... avoiding the executions only because of intervention by allies among the Ansar.

The episode in Yathrib/Medina marks a critical point in the evolution of Islam and Muhammad's relationship with the other "people of the Book." It is the point at which he abandons any hope of being recognized as a Prophet by either the Jews or the Christians, moves the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca, and establishes Islam as a faith apart from its Abrahamic fore-bearers. With it he institutionalized the Muslim antipathy towards the Jews that has characterized the history of Islam ever since.


Alas... the experience of Jews under Muslim rule might have lasted "for centuries," but not because of centuries of toleration. Even the "Golden Age" of Moorish Spain was punctuated regularly by periods of violent oppression under the Almohads and Almoravids (for example). And at other times they were tolerated merely as cash cows. For example, during the Ottoman Empire it actually became illegal for Christians and Jews to convert to Islam because the caliphate was so dependent on the jizya (the "humiliation tax") to fund its military adventures.

There is, within Islam, a deep and theologically unavoidable brutality based primarily on the centrality of the Sunnah. The Qur'an is itself a small book, and so non-comprehensive theologically that if one were to depend on it to understand Islam, you would miss a number of Islam's "five pillars" almost completely.

Instead, Islam is founded on the model of Muhammad as the perfect man. And as an exemplar of behavior, a 7th century Arab warlord does not hold up well across the centuries.
Historicly muslim and jews have gotten along very well espcialy if you compare it to how christians have treated the jews in the past antismetism has it origen in christianity and through Christinity been spread to the middle east and to muslims.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,647,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Historicly muslim and jews have gotten along very well espcialy if you compare it to how christians have treated the jews in the past antismetism has it origen in christianity and through Christinity been spread to the middle east and to muslims.
Ignoring that this is a pointless tu quoque, I am no more supportive of Christianity than I am of Islam. It can and has been argued that Islam is really little more than a heretical branch of Christianity itself. If course, that's simplistic. But why would their shared anti-Semitism absolve either?

Christianity and Islam share the commonality of being "exclusive monotheisms." Both reserve salvation only for believers at the exclusion of all other human beings (at least within their orthodox versions). And both have an equivalent of the "Great Commission" providing theological rationale for attempted world domination.

Judaism, having no similar tendency or tradition towards exclusion and intolerance has historically suffered at the hands of both its children.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:37 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,424 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
So tell me what do you think of this?

Saudi Arabia's religious police (Mutaween) stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.

One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".

15 girls needlessly burned to death. This was a few years ago, but as far as I know nothing has changed.

The Mutaween are religious police who enforce the Islamic code of law known as Sharia in Saudi Arabia. Members of the Mutaween patrol the streets of Saudi Arabia, often with an official police escort, looking for violations of Islamic law. They have the authority to arrest people for violations, and they can order floggings, imprisonment, and public humiliation as punishments.

Among other things, the Mutaween look for women who are not dressed in accordance with the Sharia, people of the opposite sex fraternizing, signs of homosexual behavior, violations of Muslim dietary laws, and other signs of “un-Islamic behavior” such as listening to rock music.
thats a really easy question. its not part of the religion. your judging the religion by how certain people practice it when you should be judging the religion by the religion itself. many people practice islam differently just as christians, catholics, buddhist, etc. do. you cant judge a religion based on the people. you have to judge the religion in itself. because then i could easily just tell you thats not part of the religion and viola, your question is answered. i hope that explains it.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:03 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
thats a really easy question. its not part of the religion. your judging the religion by how certain people practice it when you should be judging the religion by the religion itself. many people practice islam differently just as christians, catholics, buddhist, etc. do. you cant judge a religion based on the people. you have to judge the religion in itself. because then i could easily just tell you thats not part of the religion and viola, your question is answered. i hope that explains it.
Cut the crap, sukrill . . . the religion is barbaric and everything you are trying to claim is not part of the religion is an integral part of it. It is not JUST a religion it is a total system and there is no separation of church and state or anything else. Face it . . . your lies will be called out everytime and you have already shown your ignorance of the religion you adopted. Your indoctrination into the lies was apparently very successful.
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,750,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
thats a really easy question. its not part of the religion. your judging the religion by how certain people practice it when you should be judging the religion by the religion itself. many people practice islam differently just as christians, catholics, buddhist, etc. do. you cant judge a religion based on the people. you have to judge the religion in itself. because then i could easily just tell you thats not part of the religion and viola, your question is answered. i hope that explains it.
Quote:
The Mutaween are religious police who enforce the Islamic code of law known as Sharia in Saudi Arabia. Members of the Mutaween patrol the streets of Saudi Arabia, often with an official police escort, looking for violations of Islamic law. They have the authority to arrest people for violations, and they can order floggings, imprisonment, and public humiliation as punishments.

Among other things, the Mutaween look for women who are not dressed in accordance with the Sharia, people of the opposite sex fraternizing, signs of homosexual behavior, violations of Muslim dietary laws, and other signs of “un-Islamic behavior” such as listening to rock music.
How can you blatantly lie? Do you think we are all blind or stupid? What part of this do you think is not Islam? It is pure Islam as practiced with the rules taken directly from the Koran. You are either a liar, or you have invented your own fluffy version of Islam, and not the one that is stuck in the dark ages.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:59 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,955,873 times
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He's not necessarily lying as Saudi Arabia is ruled by Wahhabism which is a variant form of Islam. Saudis often restricted things that are common in many Muslim societies like Sufism and celebrating Muhammad's birthday.

Even if Muhammad has all these negative qualities this may not relate to the behaviors of actual Muslims and being so overly hostile to Islam is not really in our best interest. Some Muslims are more allegorical or spiritual-oriented with their ideals. Others are basically half-Muslim in that they mix Islam with pre-Islamic customs. You see this a good deal in West Africa. Mali and Senegal have problems with female circumcision, but mostly they're fairly free societies albeit poor ones. The Turks have a good deal of moderate Muslims as do the Balkans.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,750,270 times
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How can he not be when he denies sharia as being Islamic?

So why then are Muslims pressing to have sharia accepted as law in various western and European countries...Are you sure you are just not being a bit too PC?
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,750,270 times
Reputation: 12622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
Historicly muslim and jews have gotten along very well espcialy if you compare it to how christians have treated the jews in the past antismetism has it origen in christianity and through Christinity been spread to the middle east and to muslims.
Perhaps you should read this... The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:52 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,955,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
How can he not be when he denies sharia as being Islamic?

So why then are Muslims pressing to have sharia accepted as law in various western and European countries...Are you sure you are just not being a bit too PC?
Maybe, but I don't know.

I just think Muslims, like any group, are not monolithic. At the very least I imagine many Muslims have the sense to know you can't really press for Muslim law in a primarily non-Muslim country. And there are many majority-Muslim nations that do not have Sharia as law. In Albania, Bosnia, and Turkey homosexuality is legal if largely still socially unacceptable. In most of Indonesia, outside Aceh, homosexuality is apparently legal. I think only a minority of Muslim-majority states are actually "Islamic states" in the theo-political meaning of the word.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:41 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,905,628 times
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As with Judaism/Christianity, any time I read about ANYONE hearing voices and claiming "thus saith the lord" or "an angle talked to me and told me to tell you..." you can bet I give NOT one ounce of credibility to. I don't do it when I meet such people here in New York City on the streets so why the hell am I going to believe such nonsense from ages ago?
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