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Old 06-28-2010, 05:01 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Since the concept of "frequencies" or a "whole 'new level'" is contained nowhere in the Qur'an or Hadith, so what?

The Qur'an and Hadith do not contain a single piece of true information that was not already widely known at the time it was written.
seriously?.... thats what this forum is based on... frequencies...

everybody keeps talking about the greeks. its like as soon as someone comes up with a new excuse as to why islam is wrong its on every forum... ive seen that statement so many times, the greeks got it wrong so did muhammad. how did muhammad get it wrong? tell me how he got the following wrong......
Allah created every [living] creature from water. Some of them go on their bellies, some of them on two legs, and some on four. Allah creates whatever He wills. Allah has power over all things. (Qur'an, 24:45)
Do those who disbelieve not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not believe? (Qur'an, 21:30)
And it is He Who created human beings from water and then gave them relations by blood and marriage. Your Lord is All-Powerful. (Qur'an, 25:54)


what are you going to tell me next... that the greeks knew this? they knew water is the main component of organic matter. 50-90% of the weight of living things consists of water. It was only possible for people to come by that information, clearly expressed in those verses, hundreds of years afterwards with the invention of the microscope. it was written over 1400 years ago, what are you going to tell me next... muhammad met up with some other person to get this information?....


Last edited by sukrill; 06-28-2010 at 05:14 PM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,961,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I'm not going to pretend to answer for AREQUIPA , but Tom's post clearly has racist undertones.
Really? How so. I really try to avoid anything racial and I do not see Islam as a race. If I still have some vestiges of racism I want to work on it.

Although my suspicion is this is probably just your snide way of trying to discredit someone with whom you don't agree.

Anyway what I meant wasn't simply that Muslims are people and as such capable of doing good science. I meant that there are Muslim nations or groups are determined to support science and Islam. Abdus Salam was quite Muslim and quoted the Qur'an on winning the Nobel.

"Thou seest not, in the creation of the All-merciful any imperfection, Return thy gaze, seest thou any fissure. Then Return thy gaze, again and again. Thy gaze, Comes back to thee dazzled, aweary."

Granted most of the ones I'm aware of are of heterodox sects, Salam was Ahmadi, but there might be exceptions.

Last edited by Thomas R.; 06-28-2010 at 05:28 PM..
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:30 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
what are you going to tell me next... that the greeks knew this? they knew water is the main component of organic matter. 50-90% of the weight of living things consists of water. It was only possible for people to come by that information, clearly expressed in those verses, hundreds of years afterwards with the invention of the microscope. it was written over 1400 years ago, what are you going to tell me next... muhammad met up with some other person to get this information?....
People have known living things require water long before the greeks
No, the main component of organic matter are hydrocarbons
Yes Muhammad met people who knew about the greek teaching..
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:50 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
People have known living things require water long before the greeks
ahh gplex, stating things that were unsaid again i see. none of those verses i wrote say anything about requiring water, but being made of water... your always trying to twist words around... maybe because you just cant admit its right

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
No, the main component of organic matter are hydrocarbons.
The famous 17th century scientist Jan Baptista van Helmont discovered in 1640s that water in the soil was the most important element of plant development... so i guess hes wrong too... along with many other people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Yes Muhammad met people who knew about the greek teaching..
who'd he meet? and where's your proof? unless that is, your assuming which is not proof at all.... you do know that muhammad had many people follow him and wrote down everything he did, surely if he met with someone it was written, so is there a narration that i missed or something? or are you just going to tell me that he couldnt have known unless he met with a greek, or that they just didnt write that part and kept it a secret... or what? what could you possibly tell me...
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:54 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
ahh gplex, stating things that were unsaid again i see. none of those verses i wrote say anything about requiring water, but being made of water... your always trying to twist words around... maybe because you just cant admit its right

The famous 17th century scientist Jan Baptista van Helmont discovered in 1640s that water in the soil was the most important element of plant development... so i guess hes wrong too... along with many other people...

who'd he meet? and where's your proof? unless that is, your assuming which is not proof at all.... you do know that muhammad had many people follow him and wrote down everything he did, surely if he met with someone it was written, so is there a narration that i missed or something? or are you just going to tell me that he couldnt have known unless he met with a greek, or that they just didnt write that part and kept it a secret... or what? what could you possibly tell me...
We are not made out of water, we are made out of mainly hydrogen, carbon and oxygen. I just assume you weren't trying to be as silly as muhammad. My bad.
Explain to me why ancient cultures would make huge irrigation systems. Because they already new water was necessary for life.
I've already told you http://www.city-data.com/forum/14719566-post18.html
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,651,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
seriously?.... thats what this forum is based on... frequencies...
Perhaps. But since they are never mentioned once in either the Qur'an or the Hadith that hardly matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
everybody keeps talking about the greeks. its like as soon as someone comes up with a new excuse as to why islam is wrong its on every forum... ive seen that statement so many times, the greeks got it wrong so did muhammad. how did muhammad get it wrong? tell me how he got the following wrong......
You are really not paying paying very close attention, and its not an excuse. It is a demonstration that there's nothing special about the Qur'an.

It does not matter whether or not the Greeks got it wrong or right. It matters only that if the Qur'an said something (right or wrong) that the Greeks said first, then Muhammad does not get credit for a miracle that somebody else was able to figure out without divine help.

Of course, it's even more strange when Muslims consider it miraculous when the Qur'an gets it wrong (such as Qur'anic embryology and cosmology).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
what are you going to tell me next... that the greeks knew this?
Yep. And they knew it more than a thousand years before Islam even existed. The idea that all living things came from water was first proposed by Thales of Miletus in the 6th century BC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
they knew water is the main component of organic matter. 50-90% of the weight of living things consists of water. It was only possible for people to come by that information, clearly expressed in those verses, hundreds of years afterwards with the invention of the microscope. it was written over 1400 years ago, what are you going to tell me next... muhammad met up with some other person to get this information?..
Uhhh.... it doesn't take a microscope to see water. Thales didn't need one, and he knew all this. He died more than 1100 years before Muhammad was born.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:17 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,956,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Really? How so. I really try to avoid anything racial and I do not see Islam as a race. If I still have some vestiges of racism I want to work on it.
Your words,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Granted much of their science might be from the non-Muslim Chinese minority, but I don't know how much. I think I read once Malaysian kids do almost as well as US kids in science, which isn't great but isn't terrible.
Not in your face racism, but undertones of racism are present in your words.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,651,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
who'd he meet? and where's your proof? unless that is, your assuming which is not proof at all.... you do know that muhammad had many people follow him and wrote down everything he did, surely if he met with someone it was written, so is there a narration that i missed or something? or are you just going to tell me that he couldnt have known unless he met with a greek, or that they just didnt write that part and kept it a secret... or what? what could you possibly tell me...
Are you kidding? Muhammad personally knew and was treated by the Physician Harith bin Kalada. He is widely considered the first Muslim physician. Kalada was born at Ta'if, in the tribe of Banu Thaqif, traveled through Yemen and then Persia where he received his education in the medical sciences at the great medical school of Jundi-Shapur and thus was intimately acquainted with the medical teachings of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Galen. He was not the only educated Arab in Muhammad's acquaintance.

Look on a map. Arabia actually is pretty close to Greece, you know.

Or didn't you?
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,961,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Your words,

Not in your face racism, but undertones of racism are present in your words.
Okay I see why that sounded racial. However it's simply factual that the Chinese in Indonesia and Malaysia have a disproportionate share of their nation's wealth. That wealth likely translates to being better educated on average.

If I said "Jewish American are more likely to be scientists than Pentecostal Americans" I could see how that could sound offensive and racist. It also happens to be true going by everything I know. Can facts be racist? Well I suppose, but they're still facts. Still sometimes "racist facts" should be avoided because they're offensive or tactless and I do think maybe I should have avoided the "racist yet factual" thing about Chinese in those countries tending to be disproportionately represented in some things.
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Old 06-28-2010, 07:37 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Your words,

Not in your face racism, but undertones of racism are present in your words.
I skip past this without the thought of any racism.. mostly because I believe it is a fact...
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