U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-28-2010, 08:55 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,839 times
Reputation: 54

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by geofra View Post
Do you ever get the feeling that adhering to every teaching of holy books such as the Quran, the Bible, The Torah, etc. actually prevent you from discovering the true nature of God?

The Renaissance was, in essence, a flinging off of the traditional holy book explanations of the nature of God and using the God given traits of curiosity, thought, and intelligence to rediscover Him. Do you think all of the great discoveries were made just for the sake of knowledge? Only God could be so inspirational to those old, pious scientists, in my opinion.
on the contrary, i believe it open my eyes more to the intelligent design of Allah's creation. often thinking that God could have made our skin out of anything, rubber, silk, maybe some kind of plasma or something i don't know, but our skin is made up of our skin. kind of like when i accidently cut myself with a peice of tile when i was laying a floor at a customers house. its amazing how your skin grows back to the same shape/size/texture in a matter of days or weeks. no bigger, no different, my fingerprint is even the same... (i cut it pretty bad), but like i was saying i believe it opens my eyes more to everything around me. so id have to respectfully disagree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-28-2010, 09:35 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,839 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Wonderful graphic, Gplex. Really embraces the nugget of the OP's point I'd say.

I asked this poster once before to explain which element(s) of Evolution he thought were simply not possible. I also asked, as I recall, for him to outline 4 or 5 key elements of the Scientific Method "toolkit". He conveniently ignored those simple requests.

But now he provides another stunning demonstration of his gross lack of even the most basic elements of biochemistry and biology. Not only of life's processes, but of any of our universe's known physics and chemistry.

Witness: "Humans are composed of 50-90% water. Therefore that's all we're made of and from!" So.... so.. what about the other 10-50%, sukrill? Etherial spirits from Allah? Cave drippings? Bat mucous? Holy dirt? Muhammad's glorious "seed of life"?

As well, unless Allah could also change lead or tin into gold, the atomic structures inherent in water do not allow for an easy alteration into other more complex and heavier atoms. He or H into, say, C12 or N or O? Or some simple amino acids or sugars or proteins? Well.... nope. Not how it works, absent magic.

But: do check out Craig Venter's recent work (the spring of 2010 as a matter of fact...) with the creation of living, replicating, surviving life from simple non-living components.. Google is your friend!

Q: have you ever looked through a microscope in a biology lab? Just curious.... doesn't seem likely though.

He prefers to just read ambiguous and unrelated phrases out of a staggeringly out-of-date spiritual guide-book, written by the scientifically illiterate (can someone please suggest a shorter, easier phrase than that one? I'm really getting tired of typing it, but it's SO appropriate with these guys...).
why evolution could never make sense, because you cannot create something out of more than what you started with. i dont know what "toolkit" your talking about but all of you are ignoring the facts and just trying to find something wrong with islam. you wont admit that what he said was right, instead you try and bash the facts. and who cares what the other 10-50% was, the fact is that 50-90% consist of water. still trying to find something wrong with it, when you cant... just make rude comments, insults and your right.... suuuuure...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2010, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,378,278 times
Reputation: 3735
Default He only partially repairs things! That's it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
why evolution could never make sense, because you cannot create something out of more than what you started with. i dont know what "toolkit" your talking about but all of you are ignoring the facts and just trying to find something wrong with islam. you wont admit that what he said was right, instead you try and bash the facts. and who cares what the other 10-50% was, the fact is that 50-90% consist of water. still trying to find something wrong with it, when you cant... just make rude comments, insults and your right.... suuuuure...
Aaaahhhnnnddd... there it is. Predictable as always. Ignore the questions at hand, and insult science again, even though the poster has not even a grade 6 level of understanding of how things work. Witness his comment about how his cut finger repairs itself. No, Allah repairs it! Since he cannot understand the principles of genetics, why then, it must be the majesty of Allah, huh?

{BTW: My simple comment was: if 50% of something is made of "A", then obviously, the rest must be made of something else, let's say "B"!!! OBVIOUSLY!!! But you said it all came from "A". }

BTW, the earliest simple molecules were composed of far more than H & O. They combined C, He, N, other trace elements all attracted to each other by the simple laws of molecular interaction. Not by the hand of Allah, or God or Picku-Piku. I'm not going to tell you any more than that: I'd strongly suggest, again, that you buy yourself at least a modern intro text book. Well, unless that idea scares you senseless.... Sigh.

So tell me sukrill: can you explain how the nuclear reactor in a US Aircraft carrier works? I mean, at the detailed level. I can't. But I also know it is not the hand of Allah keeping it all together. It's modern nuclear engineering and a firm understanding of the laws of physics, nuclear chemistry, decades of experimentation, a few bad mistakes, engineering sophistication and logic.

As with the processes that reliably repair your finger. Do tell us all why Allah does not repair or regenerate a hacked-off and now missing limb or eye? He is, after all, magnificent and all-powerful, right? Or does he have limits?

Thanks for playing, sukrill. You're nothing if not predictable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,663,365 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
agreed, he did meet many people, and many people converted to islam and became muslims in his day. jews, christians, etc. however to believe that someone told him the things that are written in the quran is only an assumption. lets take sophia for example. sophia was one of the wives of the prophet, she was the daughter of a jewish emperor at the time. she could have spread a lie about the prophet at any point in time. she could have even killed him. he took over her dads empire, but yet she didnt. she could have said one thing to corrupt the entire religion of islam but she didnt. in fact she converted to islam. she realized he was a true prophet of Allah. thats a miracle in itself is it not?
No.

That's called being a prisoner of war in 7th Century Arabia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,663,365 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
why evolution could never make sense, because you cannot create something out of more than what you started with.
Then it is a very good thing that evolution does not require any such thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill
i dont know what "toolkit" your talking about but all of you are ignoring the facts and just trying to find something wrong with islam. you wont admit that what he said was right, instead you try and bash the facts. and who cares what the other 10-50% was, the fact is that 50-90% consist of water. still trying to find something wrong with it, when you cant... just make rude comments, insults and your right.... suuuuure...
So... your claim here is that Muhammad was 50%-90% right?

How come Islamic "miracles" are always so pathetic?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,209,707 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Ignoring that the idea that all living things came from water is about a thousand years older than Islam (first proposed by Thales of Miletus in the 6th century BC), need we point out that the Qu'ran is a bit inconsistent regarding the origin of mankind?
Well before that even... Ancient Egyptian theology says the world and everything in it rose up out of the waters of Nun. Likewise, the ancient Babylonians believed the first deities rose out of a primordial sea and created all things. Islam (and all western religious traditions) borrows a lot from the earlier religions of the land they came from.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 07:34 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,839 times
Reputation: 54
saying that something came from water and saying something is made up of water are two different things. they were wrong muhammad was right.

btw rifleboy

BTW: My simple comment was: if 50% of something is made of "A", then obviously, the rest must be made of something else, let's say "B"!!! OBVIOUSLY!!! But you said it all came from "A"

never did muhammad nor i ever say that everything in the world is made up of 100% water. you just assumed that. i did however say "A" is made up of water, meaning a majority of whatever it is is made up of water, you just assume i meant that it all came from "A", you and gplex twist words around so much its not even worth it to debate with you all because you think i say things i dont.

"...Not by the hand of Allah, or God or Picku-Piku... Well, unless that idea scares you senseless.... You're nothing if not predictable...."

and you think i stop responding because i cant? no its because your insulting... and i really dont have time for someone who ask me questions like "can you explain how the nuclear reactor in a US Aircraft carrier works? I mean, at the detailed level"...

can you explain to me how birds developed hollow bones? no you cant, you just have point a and point b. but you have no idea how they got there.

Historiandude,

you can assume all you want she was a "prisoner of war in 7th Century Arabia" but fact is she wasnt. she could have ran away, killed him, etc. but she didnt because she was no prisoner at all.
and you said "So... your claim here is that Muhammad was 50%-90% right"

dont tell me your beginning to twist my words around too... thats not what i said at all... you and i both know that so why do you try and say otherwise...

Chango
thanks for sharing! i have doubt acient egyptian mythology being something they believed back then. however muhammad never said anything like this. so i must disagree. he never said that allah came from water and he didnt believe in multiple gods including many things that the egyptians did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 08:55 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,734,190 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
saying that something came from water and saying something is made up of water are two different things. they were wrong muhammad was right.

btw rifleboy

BTW: My simple comment was: if 50% of something is made of "A", then obviously, the rest must be made of something else, let's say "B"!!! OBVIOUSLY!!! But you said it all came from "A"

never did muhammad nor i ever say that everything in the world is made up of 100% water. you just assumed that. i did however say "A" is made up of water, meaning a majority of whatever it is is made up of water, you just assume i meant that it all came from "A", you and gplex twist words around so much its not even worth it to debate with you all because you think i say things i dont.

"...Not by the hand of Allah, or God or Picku-Piku... Well, unless that idea scares you senseless.... You're nothing if not predictable...."

and you think i stop responding because i cant? no its because your insulting... and i really dont have time for someone who ask me questions like "can you explain how the nuclear reactor in a US Aircraft carrier works? I mean, at the detailed level"...

can you explain to me how birds developed hollow bones? no you cant, you just have point a and point b. but you have no idea how they got there.

Historiandude,

you can assume all you want she was a "prisoner of war in 7th Century Arabia" but fact is she wasnt. she could have ran away, killed him, etc. but she didnt because she was no prisoner at all.
and you said "So... your claim here is that Muhammad was 50%-90% right"

dont tell me your beginning to twist my words around too... thats not what i said at all... you and i both know that so why do you try and say otherwise...

Chango
thanks for sharing! i have doubt acient egyptian mythology being something they believed back then. however muhammad never said anything like this. so i must disagree. he never said that allah came from water and he didnt believe in multiple gods including many things that the egyptians did.
You're missing the point. If you want to claim that Muhammad had all these thing divinely revealed, then you must accept that everyone else who come to understand the exact same thing, or in my case more advance knowledge then muhammad, must also be contact with a god.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-29-2010, 09:54 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,839 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
You're missing the point. If you want to claim that Muhammad had all these thing divinely revealed, then you must accept that everyone else who come to understand the exact same thing, or in my case more advance knowledge then muhammad, must also be contact with a god.
yuour missing the point, muhammad knew things that hadnt even been known for over a thousand years yet. you know from whats known today. theres a big difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2010, 01:33 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,734,190 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
yuour missing the point, muhammad knew things that hadnt even been known for over a thousand years yet. you know from whats known today. theres a big difference.
For argument sake, lets assume no one in history figured out that life started in the ocean ( not that creatures are made from water, but creature are mostly water), then anyone in history that came up with an idea (Darwin, Einstein, Newton) that no one else had, MUST mean they were also were also in communication with god?

The fact remains, this is not a new idea, when muhammad was born. In fact it had been around for over a thousand years.

Muhammad didn't mentions atp, the kerb cycle, cell structure, the differences between eukaryotic, prokaryotic cells and viruses. The laws of gravity, relativity, galaxies, black holes, nuclear decay, fission in the heart of stars, the insignificance of earth compared to the universe and the fundamental theorems of modern mathematics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top