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Old 07-08-2010, 01:23 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,737,795 times
Reputation: 591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
and i explained that this is a narration and that he was simply describing what he saw... not that the sun ACTUALLY set in a spring of murky water... i explained that it was like someone saying that they saw the sun set into the ocean, it obviously does not set in the ocean, its just a description...

but yet again you did not say that you were wrong or that you now understand what has been written, you just came up with something esle that you claimed was wrong with islam....

meaning you cant admit that your wrong about anything which is like i said, why i just dont take you seriously anymore. your not debating, your just throwing things out there without accepting that what is written is true and surely not a contradiction. ive seen other people prove you wrong as well as i. the first step to gaining knowledge is actually admitting your wrong. until then, im actually not even going to respond to anything you have to say anymore. its pointless. your close minded, one sided arguments are really annoying...
No, that was you EXCUSE.. Explain to me how you can see the sun set in a muddy spring as the quran claims.

18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

It clearly says he found it set in a muddy spring.. seriously?

I see you are doing everything in your power to avoid the question : who made allah!
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,512,242 times
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I like that question. Allah was made out of the Possibility of Time not at all in time herself.
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,492 posts, read 6,490,774 times
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Thanks for the information. Were you trying to make a point? I missed it, if you were.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 374,124 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
hahaha brother imamway, that truly made me laugh, that is exaclty what it is like trying to explain to people the existence of allah, swt, somehow the universe created itself! they will accept this answer over the possibility of a creator, that creator being allah, swt. they say they need proof yet they show no proof that the universe created itself! then they choose to say well then what came before allah, swt, surely the shaytan has implemented thoughts into the minds of the disbelievers. subhan allah, they do not know the unseen, they do not see the miracles that allah, swt, has revealed to us. instead the shaytan tries to misconstrue the word of allah sent through his slave and messenger muhammad, pbuh, and the disbelievers will say, look what i have found, but surely if anyone could have disproved the religion of islam it would have been his uncle, written while he was alive that he would be sent to the hellfire for not believing in allah and accepting islam, surely he of all people could have disproved the quran by simply converting! but subhah allah, he did not and insha allah he will be sent to the hellfire. surely people nowadays could not disprove the quran because one person had the power to do so and by the will of allah, swt, it did not happen. humdallah. brother imamway i look forward to seeing you around.


YES my brother sukrill, you are right.

All around us indicates the existence of God (allah)

We will get back to God (allah) and atheists know the whole truth but it is sorry too late


may allah reward you


thanks
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 374,124 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
You have no empirical evidence for your claims.

If you want to claim that everything that appears design, requires a designer then you must admit that god must need someone to design him.

If, as some claim, God does not need a cause, then by the same reasoning, neither does the universe.

But this is all off topic, and doesn't address the error in the quran.


Gplex,


Allah(god) is the first without a beginning..

Allah (god) is the Last without a End ...

Creatures have a beginning and an end While Allah (god) had no beginning, had no End ...it is the one who created the universe


Do you know why you must know God and worship him ?
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,737,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Gplex,


Allah(god) is the first without a beginning..

Allah (god) is the Last without a End ...

Creatures have a beginning and an end While Allah (god) had no beginning, had no End ...it is the one who created the universe


Do you know why you must know God and worship him ?
I've already addressed this claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
If you want to postulate that allah as always been, then using YOUR logic, the universe has always been in some shape or form, except I am only taking one unknowable step, were you are taking two.
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:11 PM
 
397 posts, read 535,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
No, that was you EXCUSE.. Explain to me how you can see the sun set in a muddy spring as the quran claims.

18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

It clearly says he found it set in a muddy spring.. seriously?

I see you are doing everything in your power to avoid the question : who made allah!
wow your obviously either never going to admit your wrong or your completely ignoring what im saying. ive already stated, but ill say it again... which this repetiveness is another reason why i dont know why im still replying to your post, it was a description. if someone were to say "until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set into the ocean" or someone saying "until he reached the end of the world" these are not literal meanings. they are descriptions. can someone really reach the end of the world, no, its just a description of emotion, did the narrator really say the sun literally say the sun set into a spring of murky water? no thats just where he saw the sun setting at that point in time. if he would have been next to the beach he may have said "into the ocean" if he be in the desert, he may have said "into the sand" but really, if you just cant admit your wrong, because you still havent admitting your misunderstanding of the whole wine deal eanassir got you on. your just in denial.... now it all makes sense.

and as for your question of who made allah... ive already explained that

"as far as your question as to the existence of what came before allah no one knows. but it is not relevant to the peaceful way of life. just like god did not reveal to us many things that have happened in the past. there are things we just dont need to know. if you were to have your question answered as to where god came from then the question would be never ending. then where did that come from and where did THAT come from and where did THAT come from... it would be never ending. all that is needed to know is that god created us and here we are. who cares what came before allah, everything has to have a beginning and an end in this world. im not saying god was created by a higher being than he, i dont know. maybe allah is the beginning, as per the bible says "i am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end". its unrelevant and unecessary ro know what and if there was something before the god that created all we know in existence. it would serve no purpose, however everything in the quran that is revealed from allah serves a purpose. the lifestyle of the prophet was shown for a reason, everything he did he did had wisdom behind it and the quran has wisdom within its verses."
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:26 PM
 
397 posts, read 535,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Personally I prefer reality over fantasy.
me too! where as you see truth in things that i dont, is fine and visa versa. nothing is fantasy. the quran is believed by over a billion people. 1 in every 4 people around the world are muslim. humdallah because it matches the verses that say that "islam will enter every home" the religion of islam is second to christianity and has not been around near as long as christianity. it is growing and it will only get larger. its not fantasy, its not myths, its factual. it can be proven. scholars have studied and answer questions everyday. ideas are ideas. hypothesis, theories, assumptions, are not factual. just because you, not you personally, do not believe in god does not mean he does not exist. there are things, elements you cannot see, microscopic bugs you cannot see even with a microscope. i mean just in the past decade there have been 1200 new species discovered in mekong alone. including one we did not believe existed anymore, was believed to be extinct. however if we are a creation, there must be a creator. if you see a painting on the wall but do not see the artist, does the mean the painting painted itself? you do not see the artist but he does exist. no matter if you never see him in your life. you will meet allah after this life. insha allah. but you dont have to believe any of what im saying. im simply stating what i believe and like i said you dont have to believe it but that doesnt mean that its not true. you just have a different opinion on how things work.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:00 PM
 
5,104 posts, read 8,085,437 times
Reputation: 3069
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
me too! where as you see truth in things that i dont, is fine and visa versa. nothing is fantasy. the quran is believed by over a billion people. 1 in every 4 people around the world are muslim. humdallah because it matches the verses that say that "islam will enter every home" the religion of islam is second to christianity and has not been around near as long as christianity.
You say 1 in every 4 people around the world are muslim? Try again. How about 1 in 6+? Globally, it's estimated there are well over 6 billion people in the world, almost 7 billion. Chirstianity ranks first with an estimated 2.1 billion. Islam ranks 2nd with about 1.5 billion. No small number to be sure. And Secular/nonreligious/agnostic/atheists rank 3rd at about 1.1 billion. Also, no small number. Hinduism comes in 4th with about 900 million (nearly 1 billion).

Major Religions Ranked by Size
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:21 PM
 
397 posts, read 535,470 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
You say 1 in every 4 people around the world are muslim? Try again. How about 1 in 6+? Globally, it's estimated there are well over 6 billion people in the world, almost 7 billion. Chirstianity ranks first with an estimated 2.1 billion. Islam ranks 2nd with about 1.5 billion. No small number to be sure. And Secular/nonreligious/agnostic/atheists rank 3rd at about 1.1 billion. Also, no small number. Hinduism comes in 4th with about 900 million (nearly 1 billion).

Major Religions Ranked by Size
my fault i was mixing two readings in one. i did see that same one that your talking about but im not sure just how legit it was so then i used this one instead

Nearly 1 in 4 people worldwide is Muslim, report says - CNN.com

i figured the other one looked like a personal web page but cnn would be more legit. which says one in four people as of 2009 is mulsim. i also read somewhere that at the rate of expansion of islam that by 2050 1 in every 3 people will be muslim. humdallah...

sorry about the miscommunication though, i didnt mean to confuse anyone.
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