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Old 07-18-2010, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,483 times
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But what of the way for being righteous? The Koran also speaks of many being fools in believing in the comfortable focus of one's naivete and narrow justice concern. There is also the way of the righteous trust in what God (Allah) will accomplish for the multitude (?).
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,532,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
But what of the way for being righteous? The Koran also speaks of many being fools in believing in the comfortable focus of one's naivete and narrow justice concern. There is also the way of the righteous trust in what God (Allah) will accomplish for the multitude (?).
The way of a fool is straight in his own eyes;
But he that is wise hearkens unto counsel.


Proverbs 12:15

Every holy book in the world is full of insights. It's just a question of which ones you want to go along with.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:33 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Fair enough. I'd appreciate it very much if you could clear things up. I'm Jewish. Do you accept me as an equal?
yes sir.

in bukhari Volume 3, Book 35, Number 453: Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle bought some foodstuff (barley) from a Jew on credit and mortgaged his iron armor to him (the armor stands for guarantor)

this here is saying that not only did jews and muslims "co-exist" but they even did business together.

also Volume 2, Book 23, Number 398: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abullah: A funeral procession passed in front of us and the Prophet (PBUH) stood up and we too stood up. We said 'O Allah's Apostle! "This is the funeral procession of a Jew." He said, Whenever you see a funeral procession, you should stand up"

meaning that even thought the Jew was obviously not a muslim the Prophet himself had sympathy for another "son of God", if you will.

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 438: Narrated Anas: A young jewish boy used to serve the Prophet (PBUH) and he became sick. So the Prophet (PBUH) went to visit him. He sat near his head and asked him to embrace Islam. The boy looked at his father who was sitting there; the latter told him to obey Abu-I-Qasim and the boy embraced Islam. The Prophet (PBUH) came out saying: "Praises be to Allah Who saved the boy from the Hell-fire."

this meaning that before the boy embraced islam he would actually be a servant to the Prophet (PBUH).

Volume 3, Book 39 Number 524: Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle gave the land of Khabir to the Jew's on the condition that they work on it and cultivate it, and be given half of its yeild.

meaning that the Prophet (PBUH) actually gave land to the Jews.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 186: Once the Jews came up to the Prophet (PBUH) and said, "Death be upon you." So I cursed them. The Prophet said, "What is the matter?" I said, "Have you not heard what they said?" The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Have you not heard what i replied (to them)? (I said), ('The same is upon you.')"

here the prophet could have probably had the Jews killed for saying such a thing but instead he just replied what they said to him. still didn't do anything to them though you know.

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 12: Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the scripture (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2:136)

the prophet is trying to explain to the muslims that we both believe in the same god, the creator of heaven and hell, the owner of the day of judgment. however the final message is always the one that is supposed to be obeyed, islamically, because we believe in all the books, however we are not sure how much or what exactly has been tampered with, which was revealed to us in the Qu'ran.

there's many places in Bukhari where it references to Jew's. We all lived together at one point in time. Even though Jew's used to greet the Prophet (PBUH) by saying "Death be upon You", he didn't order them to be killed, he didn't wage a war with them for that reason, etc. I'm sure he could have but he didn't.

there's even references to Pagan's, people who didn't believe in Allah at all...

Volume 3, Book 47, Number 789: Narrated Asma' bint Abu Bakr: My mother came to me during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and she was a pagan. I said to Allah's postle (seeking his verdict), "My mother has come to me and she desires to receive a reward from me, shall i keep good relations with her?" The Prophet (PBUH) said, "Yes, keep good relation with her."

keeping good relations with a pagan, some who disbelieves. there's many references to these types of situations in the Prophet's life (PBUH). there's no reason why we would have a problem with any Jew, Christian, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop this deceptive nonsense! Muslims among infidels are COMMANDED by Allah to deceive the infidels during Dar al Harb (which exists as long as Israel exists). An INNOCENT in Islam is NOT the generically defined term used by the free world. The ONLY innocents in Islam are those who submit to Allah (Muslims and the Dhimmis). I tire of this lying and proselytizing of this heinous religion of world conquest!
i guess, whatever makes you feel better. i can tell you up and down all day your wrong but you'll always b right. no point in wasting my breath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Muslims and non Muslims will never be able to get along until Muslims accept that others have a right to practice their religion and that the whole world does not need to be muslim. Radical muslims need to be brought under control and Islam needs to get its own house in order. Islam has done little to foster understanding of peoples of the book.
Just because some muslims are "out of control" or even suicidal doesnt mean the religion itself is out of control. if those "muslims" would read the book they're supposed to be following there would be no radical muslims. but seriously, saying that islam needs to get its own house in order is like saying society needs to get its own house in order, whether they be muslim or non-muslim. people will be people. some are suicidal, some murder some rape and we do what we can as people, but if i said "every muslim is a good person" I'd be lying, because some muslims out there are just not good people. just like with any society or religion. but the religion itself has nothing to do with it. Islam literally means to OBEY god. and if your not obeying god, meaning if your killing, raping, etc. etc. then its not Islam.

i do apologize for taking a while to respond. Ive been pretty busy lately and I just found out one of my relatives is in the hospital. I ask that you pray for him to get better. He may not be a muslim but that doesn't make my love for him any less.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,883 posts, read 31,769,092 times
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There are 520 verses in the Quran promoting, predicting, condoning and commanding violence, mainly against unbelievers, Jews and even wives and other Muslims, so you are not fooling anyone here.

Since I am an unbeliever this is personal to me... "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them".) 2:191-2


Family values... "Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them". 4:34

"All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
"You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war" (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:45 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
There are 520 verses in the Quran promoting, predicting, condoning and commanding violence, mainly against unbelievers, Jews and even wives and other Muslims, so you are not fooling anyone here.

Since I am an unbeliever this is personal to me... "Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them".) 2:191-2


Family values... "Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Refuse to have sex with women from whom you fear rebellion, and scourge them". 4:34

"All married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
"You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves obtained in war" (with whom you may rape or do whatever you like). 4:24
im not even going to respond to such ignorance. the verses are not even right and im so tired of explaining the same verses. and yes there may be violence but what do you expect when people start killing and torturing muslims just for practicing their religion. there was a period of time when muslims didnt fight, it was only until god gave permission to defend yourself. but regardless you obviously show yourself to be just another person that believes what he wants to believe so like i say to all the people that have the same mentality you do, believe whatever makes you feel better because i could sit here all day and nite but your going to think what you want to think. so ill just save my breath...
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Old 08-12-2010, 12:25 PM
 
Location: The ICT, KS
124 posts, read 154,209 times
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The Muslims on city-data make me sad and probably fuel Islamophobia. I can't speak for all Muslims but for myself I accept everyone Muslim or non-Muslim.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: part of the Matrix--for now!
1,030 posts, read 1,177,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So my question is: Can a Muslim return the sentiment? Can they see me as a different but equal human being or am I always a infidel and/or barbarian because I don't believe as they do?
Yes. I do it everyday. Is it your desire for me to not consider you as an equal? Why do you want Muslims to view you as an inferior?
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,199,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta View Post
Yes. I do it everyday. Is it your desire for me to not consider you as an equal? Why do you want Muslims to view you as an inferior?
Why do you want me to want you to consider me inferior? The tone of your post seems less-than sincere...
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 11,061,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Muslims will never accept any one who is not a muslim as an equal.
they do not even consider their own woman as equal. sharia law.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:34 PM
 
Location: part of the Matrix--for now!
1,030 posts, read 1,177,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Why do you want me to want you to consider me inferior? The tone of your post seems less-than sincere...
I said unequivocally that I do not consider non-Muslims to be inferior, so why do you consider my post to be less than sincere?
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