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Old 07-23-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,878 posts, read 31,757,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Oh may I was misread


OK. sorry.


YES. sanspeur, Only be a fanatical against Islam
No, I am against the violent faction of Muslims, and you should be too...They are destroying your religion, and lying about it is not helping anyone.

Shias in the mid east operate death squads to kill Sunnis and homosexuals, while Sunnis strap bombs on themselves to blow up Shia mosques. Your religion has a cancer that may be terminal if it is not removed.

When have you last seen any other religion doing such things?
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:46 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,635,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
then let me honestly describe for you the situation , i'm a muslims and lives in muslims countries , so i guess may be you will trust me


nonmuslims are guilty of intentionally distorting what the prophet Muhammad really said, since when we look at what the prophet said, it is nothing near the claims they are making.
Sahih MuslimBook 032, Number 6303:

Humaid b. 'Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of 'Uqba b. Abu Mu'ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good. Ibn Shihab said he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them).
So as you can see, Muslims are allowed to only lie during battle, essentially in war. Muslims are allowed to lie in order to bring peace between two people, and also when a wife and husband are fighting with each other and they lie to bring about an end to their problems.

As you can see, there is nothing wrong or extreme about that now is there? During war, many people will lie; this is how war is, if an enemy comes to you asking you where you're other soldiers are, would you tell him? Off course not, and if you were forced into giving the enemy army some information, you would give him false information. This is something very common during wars, and is practiced by every single army and every practicing soldier yet no one says they are commiting a crime or something bad! How ironic American Marines who kill, rape, and bomb innocent Iraqis are hailed as heroes by many in the west yet they have a problem with a command from the Prophet Muhammad allowing people to lie in war!
What is ironic is that these things are manipulated by your scholars to be interpreted in manifold ways. I mean seriously the world that is not under Islamic control or sharia is considered a house of war. By the way we are at war at this present time - DUH!

Furthermore, the point about lieing was not lieing per-se - whether right or wrong -but the fact that because of its permissability we cannot trust muslims nor can we discern who is and is not practicing it. There are plenty of examples of so-called moderates who have been caught lieing through their tetth about what they believe and what they want to accomplish in the non-muslims countries. Wake-up people.

More importantly, the practicle and historical aspects of such things proves otherwise even if your spin is correcte - which it is not. Having a law on the books and evn an intrepretation does not make it immune from corruption and words of art so that people and groups can misue it. Your legal scholars have not reduced lieing to the specific aspects you want us to believe - your spin is historically and presently - practicle BS.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
You found that much out about her so now you will simply disregard anything she wrote about, right?
Without knowing yourself what that is?
If that is not the case, please comment on what she claims in her book and in her movement to change things


I read her articles she Rejects the Koran, the word of God and claims that God women's oppression, while millions and millions of Muslim women Living in the shadow of Islam, Islam gave women rights more than the texts of Christianity and Judaism , Why not ask about Muslim Women and the women who converts to Islam? ..


Simply I am as Muslim, I would not refuse my religion, Islam Forever


note, * Christian person who leave Christianity will vilify the Christianity

* jew person who leave Judaism will vilify the Judaism and ...etc


Do you want to give you dozens of them?
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:27 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,185,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
I read her articles she Rejects the Koran, the word of God and claims that God women's oppression, while millions and millions of Muslim women Living in the shadow of Islam, Islam gave women rights more than the texts of Christianity and Judaism , Why not ask about Muslim Women and the women who converts to Islam? ..


Simply I am as Muslim, I would not refuse my religion, Islam Forever


note, * Christian person who leave Christianity will vilify the Christianity

* jew person who leave Judaism will vilify the Judaism and ...etc


Do you want to give you dozens of them?
Big difference (not that you'll understand), but christians and jews, for the most part, live in free/non-religious societies. Their rights are mandated by secular law.

And no one is going to cut off their head for rejecting their religion.

I left christianity (Lutheran), no one put out a fatwa on me.
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, I am against the violent faction of Muslims, and you should be too...They are destroying your religion, and lying about it is not helping anyone.

Shias in the mid east operate death squads to kill Sunnis and homosexuals, while Sunnis strap bombs on themselves to blow up Shia mosques. Your religion has a cancer that may be terminal if it is not removed.

When have you last seen any other religion doing such things?


Why are you not against the violent faction of Jewish and Christian ?

Yes, I am against the violence of some Muslims , So, Muslims reject the handful of fanatical, That millions and millions of Muslims against

Why you are not against Jewish violence in Palestine against the Palestinians, Why are you not against America's war on Iraq and the killing its People, Killed in Afghanistan....................... etc

Very funny to pick and choose our position of violence ...

what all this is named, You are pick a handful of fanatical Muslims, While a country that occupies state And rape and kill people and destroy houses people and bombing mosques, And the use of white phosphorus against innocent women and children, burn their bodies ...

just you need to talk about your country what they did In Muslim lands


This intolerance will not work with me

Do you know of an Islamic state occupied to non-Muslim state and has done all of these?


We Muslims should be talking to hundreds of years about your occupation and Violence ...


Very silly and inhuman to keep silent about all this while a bunch Muslim fanatics are full of Western media


That the Americans use WP to the bodies of Muslims is not violence and terrorism


Now you talk about violence , WP no problem burning the bodies of Palestinians and Iraqis and the Afghans go on








When the Muslim armies go to your country and do all these pleas call me even I announced my anger and protest ...


If your children burnt like these pleas coll me


http://pakalert.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/wpchild.jpg (broken link)




Do not choose violence Your mood ..

For you do not like Muslims forget What is going on of war and violence and the occupation on muslims



What is war called your culture!
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Old 07-23-2010, 02:53 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
Why are you not against the violent faction of Jewish and Christian ?
Yes, if we are against islamic violence, we must not be against any other kind
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:00 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,731,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imanway View Post
but more Ignorance of you about Islam.


A lie to claim that the Qur'an is forbade the Muslims to be friends with non-Muslims ..

Now this is the problem with most of the verses. You see, most unfortunately most of the English translators of the Quran translated the word awliyaa as "friends". However, the word friend in Arabic does not always necessarily mean wali. It could also mean protector..

See Electronic Dictionary, Electronic Translator, Software for Translation for 45 languages - ECTACO UK



The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends, nor does it forbid Muslims to be friendly to non-Muslims. There are many non-Muslims who are good friends of Muslim individuals and the Muslim community. There are also many good Muslims who truly and sincerely observe their faith and are very friendly to many non-Muslims at the same time.
Islam teaches us that we should be friendly to all people. Islam teaches us that we should deal even with our enemies with justice and fairness. Allah says in the Qur'an in the beginning of the same Surat Al-Ma’dah: [O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.] (Al-Ma’dah 5 :8)



In another place in the Qur'an, Allah Almighty says:

[Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers.] (Al-Mumtahinah 60: 8-9)



There are Muslim extremists who claim that there are no common grounds between us and Christians and Jews, but this is a wrong perception of the Islamic viewpoint. Otherwise, why would Allah allow us to marry Christians and Jews? Why were the early Muslims sad when the Persians defeated the Romans-the former were magus (worshippers of fire) while the latter were Christians?

Later on Allah revealed in the Qur’an a verse that gave the Muslims glad tiding that the Romans would gain victory in the near future and that victory would be a source of happiness for them. Allah Almighty says: [ Within ten years Allah's is the command in the former case and in the latter and in that day believers will rejoice‏. In Allah's help to victory. He helpeth to victory whom He will. He is the Mighty, the Merciful.‏] (Ar-Room 30: 2-4)

This shows that Christians and Jews, despite being non-believers of Prophet Muhammad's message to humanity, are yet closer to Muslims than others who are idol worshippers.

http://www.answering-christianity.co...ri/friends.htm
I knew you would pull this argument out, that is why I posted 3 different translations.. You want to claim that these 3 scholars are wrong..
It doesn't say you can't be friends, just that you must guard (and that means lie as well) your self against non believers.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Imanway

I understand their are many moderate muslims. There is a very moderate mosque in my area and there is another one in my area that has ties to Saudia Arabia and the extreme views of wahabi Islam.

There is an Islamic school that teaches hate in my area that is funded by the Saudi government.

One that does great works and the other one that produces extremists.

Recently there has been on the news of a american convert to Islam in my area who was trying to go to Somalia to join the extremist network there.

The muslim who shot all those folks at the base recently had worshiped at the mosque in my area.

You need to understand that for non muslims when these things happen it does not speak well of Islam.

America will never lose the picture of the twin towers in our hearts. We were wounded that day. It was done by Muslims who came from Saudia Arabia.

What we see daily seems to be the extreme side to Islam, what we don't see is all those moderates out there.

What we see on this forum is Muslims excusing the extremists. Justifying their behavior.

What we need to see is Muslims taking responsibility and getting their house in order.

Jazzymom,

this Bias and bigotry will not work with me you can read what Isaid to sanspeur #55

Muslims would not also forget the war on them.

I will never forget the war on Gaza Why do not you speak and criticize the Jews Israelis in Palestine?

This violence which is being the name of Judaism

just Take only a small sample


I can not forget 1200 killed mostly women and children and 5300 wounded civilians...


I can not forget 200,000 Palestinian refugees in 1948, deprived of the right of return, While Jewish immigration to Palestine is available


I can not forget the siege of more than one million people in Gaza by Israel


I can not forget Gaza Holocaust This was described by Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak What did Israeli forces in Gaza holocaust or genocide or holocaust of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip



I annot forget to



I like non-Muslims can not forget, there is no excuse for the war, pleas do not show me excuses to ... I know well
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Not yet
251 posts, read 373,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Yes, if we are against islamic violence, we must not be against any other kind


Why is this violence against the Muslims now, while I did not see any Criticism of you?

To occupy one State to another what about it ?
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,878 posts, read 31,757,930 times
Reputation: 12623
Give me a break, Palestinians have had lots of opportunities to end the violence, but have rejected them all...I have never seen a people hold a grudge as long...Why not try peace instead of terrorism...You say a handful of terrorists...Yeah right, it's a hell of a lot more that a handful...You worry about your children being killed, and yet you strap bombs on them and send them out to blow up innocents....You are a hypocrite of the worst kind. Islam seems to love war and killing, even if it means killing other Muslims.

Your figure of Iraqi deaths is also a lie....90% of those deaths were Sunnis killing Shias and vise versa...Nothing but lies
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