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Old 03-19-2011, 11:28 PM
 
912 posts, read 722,250 times
Reputation: 115

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
"Treat your neighbour (for love) as you would have Him treat you" has equal or maybe even greater inadequacies. It amounts to the feeling that once you separate you can just depend on the mercy of forgiveness by the courtroom in the contract to fulfill.

We eventually, I believe, shall have to take on the world with the fervor of everyone being a human being to the hilt of self-forgiveness like it we cannot excuse the lonely and destitute. People are not justly realized for failing each other because they can excuse whatever life make chaotically for the misfortune. And, Misfortune over your neighbor is more common than fortune.
I think the emphasis on guilt vrs consequence is being over-stated. Is the
reality of living with good-will less important than consequence...?
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,332 posts, read 10,375,671 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
The Reconquista - The Muslims in Spain became more militant due to fighting with Christendom and then were defeated.
Cobblers! The conquered Spanish were allowed to keep their possessions, their religion and were treated with compassion...which resulted in millions of them converting to Islam. By 1200 CE, some 5.6 million of Spain's 7 million inhabitants, nearly all native inhabitants, were Muslim.

Such was not not the case when Isabella and Ferdinand drove the Moors out of Spain. All Moorish possessions were confiscated and they forced the remaining Muslims and Jews to leave Spain, convert to Roman Catholic Christianity or be killed for not doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Pean View Post
Islam would not exist without Jihad. It is "Love me or I keel you".
Much like Christianity was after Constantine then?
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:59 AM
 
205 posts, read 478,499 times
Reputation: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Cobblers! The conquered Spanish were allowed to keep their possessions, their religion and were treated with compassion...which resulted in millions of them converting to Islam. By 1200 CE, some 5.6 million of Spain's 7 million inhabitants, nearly all native inhabitants, were Muslim.
That is like talk about the king Arthur, Merlin and excalibur.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,332 posts, read 10,375,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempranillo View Post
That is like talk about the king Arthur, Merlin and excalibur.
Huh?? Translation anyone?
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,018,447 times
Reputation: 5079
The Muslims learned their more recent methods well from the earlier Christians who spread their beliefs at the point of a sword.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:24 PM
 
205 posts, read 478,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Huh?? Translation anyone?
that mean you are a liar, doing muslim propaganda. The mozárabes were a 3º class, part of them became muladíes to have the same rights of the rest,what about the persecutions?, Do you know about "día de la hoya"? Only in one day were killed around 5000 mozárabes in Toledo. With the arrive to spain of Almohades and Almorávides the mozárabes and even part of the mulaidíes were killed, enslaved and finally expulsed to chrstian territories. You take from the history only what is good for your believes. Your loved myth is just that, a myth, muslims were as bad as the rest of the people of the middle age.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,018,447 times
Reputation: 5079
I'm afraid I didn't get much out of that. Or maybe I'm glad. I can't be sure.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,332 posts, read 10,375,671 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempranillo View Post
that mean you are a liar, doing muslim propaganda.
Hardly!! I'm atheist!!.

Quote:
The mozárabes were a 3º class, part of them became muladíes to have the same rights of the rest,what about the persecutions?, Do you know about "día de la hoya"? Only in one day were killed around 5000 mozárabes in Toledo. With the arrive to spain of Almohades and Almorávides the mozárabes and even part of the mulaidíes were killed, enslaved and finally expulsed to chrstian territories.
Sorry, can't decipher that. English is obviously not your first language but I commend you for your efforts in trying to communicate in English as best you can.

Quote:
You take from the history only what is good for your believes. Your loved myth is just that, a myth,
I'm atheist.

Quote:
muslims were as bad as the rest of the people of the middle age.
Ah I see now! Your point is that invading Moors committed some atrocities against the Spanish people. Of course they did. All invading armies commit some atrocities somewhere. The British have done so, the Americans have done so and every other nation has done so.

My point was that, in general, the Moorish invasion of Andalusia did not result in the violent oppression of the populace. They were allowed to keep their land, their possessions and whatever religious beliefs they held. So "agreeable" was the occupation, that Spanish Catholics deserted Catholicism by the millions and became Muslims.

I'm not saying that the Moors advanced through Spain with the Spanish throwing flowers at their feet. I'm not saying that the Moors didn't kill anyone or commit atrocities. I'm saying that they were more tolerant of people's beliefs than the Christians were when they drove the Moors out of Spain.

P.S. I am not Muslim and I'm atheist.
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