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Old 09-23-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,328,697 times
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I find it interesting to have a disagreement over a person's choice of clothing, not too long ago in this country, women were forbidden to wear a bathing suit on the beach, they had to be completely covered in order to sit out on the beach and if they dared to not be covered they could be arrested for indecent exposure. We in this country have no right to dictate to other countries how their people should dress and if it's their choice, which in some countries it is, who are we to try to make them change that.

 
Old 09-23-2010, 12:53 PM
 
43 posts, read 24,502 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I follow evolution and science.
Who wears that full burka then?

I dont agree with the burka because I think it is disrespectful to not only women but to men to think so little of them that they would just rape or attack because you are not wearing some giant cloak. WHy dont men have to cover up? Or are they considered ugly and not worthy of sexual looks?

Ohh , no dear
it`s not that..
look dear that verse:
30. Say, Prophet, to the believers, to restrain their eyes?which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down, guarding their sexual morality, refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech. This imparts to them sanctity of manners and chastity. All‚h is All-Knowing of all that they do.
31. And say to the female believers to restrain their eye-sight (which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down), to preserve their private parts, (refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech) and not to display their embellishment (adventitious ornaments and false additions) but not what is naturally exposed (face and hands), to draw their veils over their shoulders and their bosoms, not to display their adornments or embellishment except to their husbands, their fathers or fathers-in-law, their sons or stepsons, their brothers, their nephews, to their brothers or to their sisters, their women associates, be they friends or reduced to servile state or those on hand, or the male servants who are rendered harmless through age or physical defect, or the children who are still at the stage of knowledge of sex; nor should they stamp their feet to attract attention to what is hidden of their embellishment. All‚h exhorts you believers to keep in awe of Him and to entertain the profound piety due to Him so that you may prosper.
Quran 24:30-31

so the order to restrain eyes sight were to males and females.
and also Islam didn`t say that men are all wolves looking for their preies..no no .
But Hijab not only for keeping woman but to keep man also from any chance of exciting his hidden lusts and desires so he make man more able to be not a slave of his lusts .
let me give you an example:
we are to give people some vaccines to protect them from existing diseases but it doesn`t mean that we will all be subjected to the caustive organism but i shall provide protection even my luck was good and i will not ever meet the caustive orgainsim.
i`m protected coz it present but i may not meet it but wisely i should be protected.

i wish that my idea reached you
 
Old 09-23-2010, 12:54 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I follow evolution and science.
Who wears that full burka then?

I dont agree with the burka because I think it is disrespectful to not only women but to men to think so little of them that they would just rape or attack because you are not wearing some giant cloak. WHy dont men have to cover up? Or are they considered ugly and not worthy of sexual looks?

The belief is that men are somehow less in control of their desires, so the woman needs to cover up so that the man can be in control. This belief is also found in some denominations in Christianity and Judaism although in the more orthodox and ultra orthodox spectrum of Judaism.

It is absolutely a man made belief. Men have taken it to the extreme in order to keep women under wraps and in their control and powerless. It is especially horrid in 3rd world countries where women are not even guarenteed an education. it becomes tied to the honor of a family and in countries like Afganistan a women can be killed if her family's honor comes into question.

A women should never be held responsible for a mans urges. Men ought to be on control of their own emotions and behavior.
 
Old 09-23-2010, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,016,027 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
I find it interesting to have a disagreement over a person's choice of clothing, not too long ago in this country, women were forbidden to wear a bathing suit on the beach, they had to be completely covered in order to sit out on the beach and if they dared to not be covered they could be arrested for indecent exposure. We in this country have no right to dictate to other countries how their people should dress and if it's their choice, which in some countries it is, who are we to try to make them change that.

If they are in their country, that is their business. Here in this country, I can say something. They wore bathing gowns, and long underwear back in the "olden days", not due to religion but because they were prude. It used to be ok to swim naked which brought on the prudeness to some who felt it was needed to set stupid laws.. Times change
 
Old 09-23-2010, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,016,027 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
The belief is that men are somehow less in control of their desires, so the woman needs to cover up so that the man can be in control. This belief is also found in some denominations in Christianity and Judaism although in the more orthodox and ultra orthodox spectrum of Judaism.

It is absolutely a man made belief. Men have taken it to the extreme in order to keep women under wraps and in their control and powerless. It is especially horrid in 3rd world countries where women are not even guarenteed an education. it becomes tied to the honor of a family and in countries like Afganistan a women can be killed if her family's honor comes into question.

A women should never be held responsible for a mans urges. Men ought to be on control of their own emotions and behavior.


Agree completely.
 
Old 09-23-2010, 12:58 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,456,089 times
Reputation: 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by light beam View Post
women who are to visit a male doctor will not be exposed to him except during examination of the particular part,,,,and it`s necessity, or u think that she will die and not to seek medical advice!!!!
But in the street ,female should be in her good clothes to avoid looks from people...some of them with bad hearts



and plz can i know what`s ur religion then????
If a male doctor can keep control when he looks at a female, then a male lawyer or architect or bricklayer or any other kind of male can do that too.

So you've just wildly contradicted yourself. Men will lose control at the sight of your "pericious" body or they won't. You can't have it both ways.
 
Old 09-23-2010, 01:00 PM
 
43 posts, read 24,502 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
If they are in their country, that is their business. Here in this country, I can say something. They wore bathing gowns, and long underwear back in the "olden days", not due to religion but because they were prude. It used to be ok to swim naked which brought on the prudeness to some who felt it was needed to set stupid laws.. Times change
plz u`re free to choose ur religion and to choose ur wear...and also we are free to follow our religious guides
 
Old 09-23-2010, 01:00 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by light beam View Post
Ohh , no dear
it`s not that..
look dear that verse:
30. Say, Prophet, to the believers, to restrain their eyes?which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down, guarding their sexual morality, refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech. This imparts to them sanctity of manners and chastity. All‚h is All-Knowing of all that they do.
31. And say to the female believers to restrain their eye-sight (which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down), to preserve their private parts, (refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech) and not to display their embellishment (adventitious ornaments and false additions) but not what is naturally exposed (face and hands), to draw their veils over their shoulders and their bosoms, not to display their adornments or embellishment except to their husbands, their fathers or fathers-in-law, their sons or stepsons, their brothers, their nephews, to their brothers or to their sisters, their women associates, be they friends or reduced to servile state or those on hand, or the male servants who are rendered harmless through age or physical defect, or the children who are still at the stage of knowledge of sex; nor should they stamp their feet to attract attention to what is hidden of their embellishment. All‚h exhorts you believers to keep in awe of Him and to entertain the profound piety due to Him so that you may prosper.
Quran 24:30-31

so the order to restrain eyes sight were to males and females.
and also Islam didn`t say that men are all wolves looking for their preies..no no .
But Hijab not only for keeping woman but to keep man also from any chance of exciting his hidden lusts and desires so he make man more able to be not a slave of his lusts .
let me give you an example:
we are to give people some vaccines to protect them from existing diseases but it doesn`t mean that we will all be subjected to the caustive organism but i shall provide protection even my luck was good and i will not ever meet the caustive orgainsim.
i`m protected coz it present but i may not meet it but wisely i should be protected.

i wish that my idea reached you

The fact that you believe this is disturbing. Men need to have self control and women need not to be the ones responsible to keep his urges under control.

I have 2 sons and they have been taught that they are responsible for their behavior and to behave in a responsible way when it comes to the opposite sex.

I see muslim women covered up from head to toe while their husbands and sons have short sleeve shirts on and shorts in 100 degree weather. That is not right......
 
Old 09-23-2010, 01:02 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,456,089 times
Reputation: 3945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
The fact that you believe this is disturbing. Men need to have self control and women need not to be the once responsible to keep his urges under control.

I have 2 sons and they have been taught that they are responsible for their behavior and to behave in a responsible way when it comes to the opposite sex.

I see muslim women covered up from head to toe while their husbands and sons have short sleeve shirts on and shorts in 100 degree weather. That is not right......
You know what would be more fair...since Muslim men are so wildly incapable of controlling themselves, then the men should be forced by their religion to wear blindfolds all the time. and the women should be able to dress comfortably. After all, it's not the women with the problem, it's the men. Why force the women to suffer when it's not their fault?

Better yet, just gouge out the eyes of every male once he hits puberty. It's the only way to be sure.
 
Old 09-23-2010, 01:06 PM
 
43 posts, read 24,502 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
If a male doctor can keep control when he looks at a female, then a male lawyer or architect or bricklayer or any other kind of male can do that too.

So you've just wildly contradicted yourself. Men will lose control at the sight of your "pericious" body or they won't. You can't have it both ways.
please read this:
30. Say, Prophet, to the believers, to restrain their eyes?which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down, guarding their sexual morality, refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech. This imparts to them sanctity of manners and chastity. All‚h is All-Knowing of all that they do.
31. And say to the female believers to restrain their eye-sight (which includes obliquity of the eyes, staring a person out of countenance, staring a person up and down), to preserve their private parts, (refraining from unlawful sexual intercourse, and guarding the chastity of their speech) and not to display their embellishment (adventitious ornaments and false additions) but not what is naturally exposed (face and hands), to draw their veils over their shoulders and their bosoms, not to display their adornments or embellishment except to their husbands, their fathers or fathers-in-law, their sons or stepsons, their brothers, their nephews, to their brothers or to their sisters, their women associates, be they friends or reduced to servile state or those on hand, or the male servants who are rendered harmless through age or physical defect, or the children who are still at the stage of knowledge of sex; nor should they stamp their feet to attract attention to what is hidden of their embellishment. All‚h exhorts you believers to keep in awe of Him and to entertain the profound piety due to Him so that you may prosper.
Quran 24:30-31

i`m not to condradict myself....but plz try to understand me.
the original concept is to keep woman body from eyes of men wether their looks are bad or good ...but the is a general basis in our religion which is necessity allow the forbidden things....and according to that general base, i told you that i can visit a male doctor if i`m ill coz it`s necessity but still i`ll prefer female doctor but if male doctor is more clever, i`ll ask his advice according to the general base i told you before


i wish u understand me
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