U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-23-2010, 06:46 AM
 
40,298 posts, read 26,876,846 times
Reputation: 6070

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by sanspeur Oh, I know and don't need to be reminded.
I just stated the fact that the Qur'an is written by non-Caucasian people.
It seems that jingoism still lives in the US.
I mean where do Americans get the gall to call Muslims backwards while up until Martin Luther King JR. the black American was seen as inferior to white Americans?
Where even now homosexual Americans can't get married in front of the law (or church for that matter).
Where American medical personnel risk the chance of getting killed because they perform abortions?
Now this is what I call backwards.
This is all YOUR perception . . . no one is claiming Christianity is scientific or culturally modern . . . but it is six or more centuries ahead of the Moderator cut: deleted Islam. Neither has much of anything to do with science.

Last edited by june 7th; 11-23-2010 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: "Barbaric" is insulting...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-23-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,826,271 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Quote:
Trying to base modernity and science on the accomplishments from 6 or more centuries ago is pathetic.
Are you implying that modern science isn't build on the science of 6 or more centuries ago?
Or do you believe that it is okay to use the accomplishments of Islamic scientist that you find useful and then dismiss them as being backwards?
To me this attitude reeks of hypocrisy.

Quote:
This is all YOUR perception . . . no one is claiming Christianity is scientific or culturally modern . . . but it is six or more centuries ahead of the Moderator cut: deleted Islam. Neither has much of anything to do with science.
The problem with concepts as being modern is that it is all subjective.
Another thing is that being 'modern' doesn't necessarily mean that it works or that being modern is a good thing.

Moderator cut: Off topic

Last edited by june 7th; 11-24-2010 at 08:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
8,701 posts, read 11,869,829 times
Reputation: 3728
Quote:
Originally Posted by islam20 View Post
hi

have you seen an amazing miracle like Quran ?
Nope, just an amazing lack of definite articles. Why is that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2010, 05:52 PM
 
40,298 posts, read 26,876,846 times
Reputation: 6070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MysticPhDAre you implying that modern science isn't build on the science of 6 or more centuries ago?
Or do you believe that it is okay to use the accomplishments of Islamic scientist that you find useful and then dismiss them as being backwards?
Simple . . . you haven't done anything important scientifically since and the theocracies want to screen any discoveries of science through the religious leadership.
Quote:
The problem with concepts as being modern is that it is all subjective.
Another thing is that being 'modern' doesn't necessarily mean that it works or that being modern is a good thing.
the tenets of a modern civilized society are not up for debate as a good thing. Equal status and treatment and protection for every individual is essential, period. Outlawing punishments for religious violations is essential. Religion has no place in civil or criminal laws. God is the only one concerned about any violations of a religious nature . . . not human beings or the state. The outrageous punishments like beheading are truly barbaric . . . so I don't understand why that adjective gets deleted from my posts when I point it out.
Quote:
Moderator cut: orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned reference

Last edited by june 7th; 11-24-2010 at 08:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2010, 11:13 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,826,271 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Quote:
Moderator cut: orphaned/off topic
That may well be true, but notice that I haven't called, suggested or implied that anyone (let alone a whole culture) is backwards.
(But if I did I would only call individuals backwards because I would have an actual experience with that person and not a whole culture).

I don't like talking in terms of backwards, because that suggests that I'm talking from a position of absolute (moral) superiority which I specifically do not.
I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong, therefore it would be 'backwards' of me to call someone else backwards.
All I'm asking Mystic is why he is measuring with 2 yardsticks?
It took Christianity a couple of centuries to become secular and expecting that other cultures also become secular in the same or a shorter time span is unfair.
I mean this is what messed up Africa and why it still is messed up.

Moderator cut: Off topic

Last edited by june 7th; 11-24-2010 at 08:30 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2010, 11:42 PM
 
40,298 posts, read 26,876,846 times
Reputation: 6070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by sanspeur That may well be true, but notice that I haven't called, suggested or implied that anyone (let alone a whole culture) is backwards.
(But if I did I would only call individuals backwards because I would have an actual experience with that person and not a whole culture).

I don't like talking in terms of backwards, because that suggests that I'm talking from a position of absolute (moral) superiority which I specifically do not.
I fully acknowledge that I might be wrong, therefore it would be 'backwards' of me to call someone else backwards.
All I'm asking Mystic is why he is measuring with 2 yardsticks?
It took Christianity a couple of centuries to become secular and expecting that other cultures also become secular in the same or a shorter time span is unfair.
I am not measuring with two yardsticks. I don't care what religion it is . . . if it believes in the inequality of any category of human beings . . . it is benighted and culturally backward, period. If it believes its religious beliefs/prohibitions/rules . . . whatever should be made into laws with punishments administered by society . . . it is benighted and culturally baclward. Islam just happens to be the most culturally backward and dangerous of the current crop of religions . . . not to mention with the largest percentage of violent fanatic and radical lunatics and their supporters.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,826,271 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Quote:
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Moderator cut: Orphaned reference/off topic

Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Quote:
Islam just happens to be the most culturally backward and dangerous of the current crop of religions . . . not to mention with the largest percentage of violent fanatic and radical lunatics and their supporters.
This has nothing to do with religion but with the fact that most Muslims are dirt poor and therefore mostly uneducated.
And just because people couldn't afford a good education should they be simply classified as backwards.

Last edited by june 7th; 11-24-2010 at 08:34 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2010, 08:07 AM
 
40,298 posts, read 26,876,846 times
Reputation: 6070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MysticPhDThis has nothing to do with religion but with the fact that most Muslims are dirt poor and therefore mostly uneducated.
And just because people couldn't afford a good education should they be simply classified as backwards.
If you have another indicator of culturally backward . . . I am willing to consider it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2010, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,397,102 times
Reputation: 3735
Agreed, Mystic. By any logical standards, the ancient accomplishments of tribal Islam are paled into the shadows by modern science's logic-based and well-documented accomplishments. The Islamic Space Station? Mosques in Space?

Sorry; we did not build western knowledge on early Islamic discoveries; rather, they fed on previous independent original thinking, mostly Greek.

It seems endemic within Islam that they regularly attempt to proclaim their heritage as the progenitors of all modern science while completely abandoning it in favor of a barbaric and repressive social culture today. Honest and successful scientific research requires complete intellectual freedom, for which Islam is not famously known except to actively suppress it by the most barbaric means!

Meantime, modern Islam buys their weapon technologies from Russia or China or the US, or they steal it via subterfuge from the West, or they send their students to western universities to learn what we know.

Very convincing! Oh, and really! You're welcome! We Westerners are always happy to bring backwards cultures into the light of day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2010, 11:05 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,826,271 times
Reputation: 1573
I guess it comes down to living in cities vs. living in the country (or a village).
To live in the open country you only need religion; if a small-town community doesn't work together to be self-sufficient they won't survive and religion strenghtens the bond of the community.
In order to live in large cities modern man, compared to his tribal counterpart, needs to be highly individualised. Nowadays modern man can survive in a city without ever setting foot outside of his room.

So the difference between religion and science is that religion is geared to work for large groups of people while science can be completely individualistic.
My theory is that because of modern science the individualisation process could've become possible, which is a good thing.
But every upside has its downside and the downside of the individualisation process is that it also opens the path for the individual to buy into the myth that he can survive all on his own (that he has conquered the 'chaotic' jungle).

I'm of the opinion that modern man, compared to his ancient tribal counterpart behaves 'unnatural' and seems almost entirely disconnected from nature. For the survival of a species nature uses the strategy of diversification while science and modern man do the opposite.
We specialise in living in the artificial concrete jungle and if we aren't careful we'll change the whole world into a concrete globe.
Doesn't this seem backwards to you?

I guess man always has had the desire to fish the seas empty, unfortunately nowadays, because of modern science, we're able to do just that.
It used to be that man had to adapt to his environment, but modern man creates his own artificial environment and forces his environment to adapt to him.
Modern man believes this to be a good thing, but I just don't buy that.
To paraphrase Jesus: 'What is the use of conquering the whole world if you lose your soul in the process?'

The way I see it is that the Islam ( and the Christians also) and science are both in a battle to conquer the world.
Science simply calls it progress and most Muslim (and Christians) believe that they have to conquer the world in order to save it from Satan or destruction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top