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Old 11-28-2010, 12:56 PM
 
271 posts, read 304,977 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
So are you suggesting any ideology that calls itself a religion is above criticism?
This is not criticism. It is another ideology
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:17 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill
Quote:
So are you suggesting any ideology that calls itself a religion is above criticism?
Not at all.
The thing is that Wilders is unwilling to acknowledge that Judaism, Christianity and the Islam all have the same (Abrahamic) roots.
But Wilders insists that only the Islam is a (fascist) ideology and that Judaism & Christianity aren't.
What Wilders conveniently neglects to mention is that the German Nazis are Christians, so if he keeps insisting that the Islam is a fascist ideology he also has to call Christianity & Judaism fascist ideologies.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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The truest German Nazis were allegedly Pagans, following the old Teutonic gods, but in reality they were pure opportunists.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Like the Dutch politician (read: populist / demagogue) Geert Wilders who keeps saying that the Islam is a backwards culture (Wilders claims that the Islam isn't even a religion but a political ideology like (Nazi) fascism and compares the Qu'ran to Hitler's Mein Kampf).
He is correct on that point. Islam is a deen . . . NOT just a religion and it encompasses all human activity and governance, period. Any existing secular governments in Islamic countries are simply enjoying a "truce state" until sufficient power accumulates to eliminate them and substitute Sharia. It is a hateful and intolerant deen from a backward and barbaric culture that has no respect for modern civilization. The Qur'an and the Sunnahs are the guide for conquering and spreading Allah's absolute rule over humanity. The ultimate goal is for everyone to either convert, submit under dhimmitude or die, period. There is nothing to commend Islam as currently envisioned and understood to an enlightened modern civilization . . . nothing!
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Quote:
Any existing secular governments in Islamic countries are simply enjoying a "truce state" until sufficient power accumulates to eliminate them and substitute Sharia.
So you admit that the secularisation is an important factor?
Or do you like Wilders ignore the fact that Judaism, Christianity and the Islam come from the same roots?
Just like you perceive the Islam now, early Christianity and Judaism were exactly alike, back then there was no separation of church & state.
Heck, the Roman Empire even elevated Christianity to their state religion.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: OKC
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Is Christianity the words in a book, or is it the belief system informed by an interpretation of the words in the book? Which is more important, what the bible actually says, or what the believers THINK the bible says? (If you are a Christian you'll probably answer those questions one way, but as an atheist I would answer them the other.)

Regardless of what the bible, (or the Torah) actually says, the Christians and Jews have been through their reformations and counter-reformations such that most of them don't actually believe that their religion codons or encourages fascism. Even if their is a sufficient basis to claim the bible encourages fascism, that's not a part of modern Christianity because modern Christians don't believe that to be the case.

Islam, on the other hand, went through their reformation in the 70's and actually became MORE FUNDAMENTALIST. They are MORE AT ODDS WITH MODERNITY after their reformation than they were before! So while they might not actually use the word fascism, they do believe that the Koran and their religions encourages a fascist form of government.

Thats why the text may have some things in common between the three Abrahamic religions, but the interpretation makes one a fascist religion while the others are generally not.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:03 PM
 
40,409 posts, read 26,920,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MysticPhD So you admit that the secularisation is an important factor?
Or do you like Wilders ignore the fact that Judaism, Christianity and the Islam come from the same roots?
Just like you perceive the Islam now, early Christianity and Judaism were exactly alike, back then there was no separation of church & state.
Heck, the Roman Empire even elevated Christianity to their state religion.
This comparison of the past with today is pointless and moronic. The simple reality is that Islam TODAY is a greater threat to civilization than Christianity of the past. Modern techology and weaponry is far more devastating and presents a CURRENT problem . . . not past history. This perpetual using of recriminations for past actions to excuse or pretend to understand and tolerate the current barbarity of Islam and its goals is a PC luxury we cannot afford.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:34 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,833,937 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Quote:
The simple reality is that Islam TODAY is a greater threat to civilization than Christianity of the past. Modern techology and weaponry is far more devastating and presents a CURRENT problem . . . not past history.
And according to your own reasoning you can't blame the Muslims for the threat of modern technology since you believe that their last contribution to science and technology was 6 centuries ago.
So I can only conclude that Christianity is the greatest threat since their culture not only invented a nuclear WMD they also used it.
Twice.
As an experiment to see which 1 is ‘better’ the atom bomb or the hydrogen bomb.

The country that is willing to use the nuclear bomb will start a nuclear WW, which possibly will be the end of humanity.
It wouldn't surprise me if a Christian president, 1 who also believes in the rapture, would start Armageddon.
Then again it also could be a Muslim, Hindu, atheist or any other kind of leader.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:42 AM
 
40,409 posts, read 26,920,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MysticPhD And according to your own reasoning you can't blame the Muslims for the threat of modern technology since you believe that their last contribution to science and technology was 6 centuries ago.
So I can only conclude that Christianity is the greatest threat since their culture not only invented a nuclear WMD they also used it.
Twice.
As an experiment to see which 1 is ‘better’ the atom bomb or the hydrogen bomb.

The country that is willing to use the nuclear bomb will start nuclear WW, which possibly will be the end of humanity.
It wouldn't surprise me if a Christian president, 1 who also believes in the rapture, would start Armageddon.
Then again it also could be a Muslim, Hindu, atheist or any other kind of leader.
You just don't get it with your foolish focus on all this recrimination nonsense!!!It has nothing to do with the threat that faces us TODAY from fanatic Islam. They not only do not fear global destruction . . . they would welcome it as Allah's judgment on a corrupt humanity. Unlike rational and sober countries like Russia , etc. for whom Mutually Assured Destruction was a deterrent . . . that simply will not work with the Islamic mindset, period!
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:57 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,746,939 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by MysticPhD And according to your own reasoning you can't blame the Muslims for the threat of modern technology since you believe that their last contribution to science and technology was 6 centuries ago.
So I can only conclude that Christianity is the greatest threat since their culture not only invented a nuclear WMD they also used it.
Twice.
As an experiment to see which 1 is ‘better’ the atom bomb or the hydrogen bomb.

The country that is willing to use the nuclear bomb will start a nuclear WW, which possibly will be the end of humanity.
It wouldn't surprise me if a Christian president, 1 who also believes in the rapture, would start Armageddon.
Then again it also could be a Muslim, Hindu, atheist or any other kind of leader.
Good news! We can all blame the jews for inventing the bomb!

BTW the Nuclear bombs didn't kill nearly as many people as the fire bombing we did proceeding them. Even after the nukes were dropped, Japan wouldnt surrender. It wasn't until Russia started moving into China that they cried uncle.... but that's a different story.
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