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Old 12-13-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,375,913 times
Reputation: 3735

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Many Muslim supporters who post here claim religious tolerance, love for their fellow man, tolerance of other religions and their wish for nothing more than global brotherly love.

What lovely expressions and goals!

In reality,however, what we Westerners frequently see now is world-wide intolerance expressed by many Islamic groups, often seen in milling, angry street mobs, throwing Molotovs and stones, and grasping their beloved AKs. Perhaps this is partly the biases of our own Western media, however many fanatical Islamic splinter groups have taken complete credit for the violent actions of their members.

Question: as a supposedly peace-loving and tolerant religious group, do you all feel you are doing everything you can to counter the problems of radical Islam which you all must agree on and face up to? To deal with the world-view of Islam as an increasingly militant group managed by violence-prone zealots with an often-stated goal of world spiritual domination, with "death to the infidel!"?

Given the sensitivity of this issue, and it's high political, religious and cultural profile, should your local mosque group not perhaps do a lot more to root out radicals and fomentors of violence? Should you not be turning in those you even suspect of pressing for such anti-social and destructive behavior? Should your Mosque not be an advocate for preventing the needless deaths of innocent women and children? A few quiet speeches and claims don't cut it here: you need to be as vigorously outraged, or perhaps even more so, than we Westerners.

Would not your God, Allah, want you to seek peace through suppression of these radical fringe elements? Because otherwise, you'll have to accept the general stereotyping and profiling that accompanies your apparent willingness to just look the other way and not get directly involved.

Seems to me you have a golden opportunity these days to find and turn in those evil radicals, and to gain a new respect amongst us Westerners.

Allah won't do it for you, after all.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:39 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,527,052 times
Reputation: 3751
With all due respect, rifleman, I see no real question here. What I see instead is a LOT of personal/editorial opinion wrapped around a conclusion, which happens to be camouflaged as a leading question.

So that you may better understand, please answer the following question by saying either "Yes" or "No". Okay?

Do you still abuse your loved ones? (Remember, the only acceptable answers are either "yes" or "no"...)



-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:10 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,375,913 times
Reputation: 3735
Yep, it's certainly a loaded question, but then again, what about the usual commentary from our Muslim friends here? They often ask us: "What do you not like about Islam?", with doe-eyes and loving smiles?

So, I will again ask the question:
do ardent, faithful peace-professing Muslims, defenders of a great faith of love and accomplishment as they tell it, feel they are doing enough to stifle the radical fanatic element that's so damaging to their reputation (which, I do hope, they acknowledge is damaged in the general opinion of this troubled world).

As in: would we Westerners tolerate a fanatic Christian who perhaps tried to recruit us in our post-sermon Sunday Church coffee get-together?

Or do they perhaps see the actions of those guys as a positive step towards what the Qu-Ran demands of them? Do those actions secretly make a Muslim proud? They were, after all, dancing in the streets on 9/11. But then, I may be wrong.

Simple enough. Oddly though, so far, within 20+h of posting this one, there's been no response from any of them.

(Shhhhhhh!)
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:29 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,976,124 times
Reputation: 6684
What I remember from my courses on Islam is that the "good ones" often lean toward quietism and mysticism. The idea being that it is better to have a bad government than no government and that if you can not fight "the evil" it is better to withdraw from it. (Into prayer, charity, a brotherhood, family, local issues, or what have you) Hence I believe many peace-loving Muslims were initially tolerant, even if disapproving of, the Taliban because before the Taliban Afghanistan was in a state of almost Somalia-like anarchy. They didn't like it or anything, but they were uncertain what would replace it. Also some Sufis and others grudgingly accepted Europe imperialist rule as revolution or upheaval was seen as too risky or lawless. There's also a predestination/fate aspect to much Islamic thinking that I believe leans toward "if that is what happens it must be God's will in some way." So there might be occasional feelings of resignation to the idea Radical Islam is just kind of there and there's nothing to be done except raise your kids right and hope for the best.

Other Muslims feel that it is neither sensible nor fair to expect them to be "accountable" for their co-religionists. That what matters is either their own actions or those of the immediate community they live. That they need to feel no more concern with Radical Islam than most Christians would feel about "Christian Reconstructionism" or "The Army of God" or snake-handlers.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:13 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,461,348 times
Reputation: 3946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Seems to me you have a golden opportunity these days to find and turn in those evil radicals, and to gain a new respect amongst us Westerners.

Allah won't do it for you, after all.
Agreed. Why don't you Muslims start with something simple, like releasing the woman in Pakistan who has been sentenced to death for "blasphemy", simply for offering her fellow field-workers a drink of water. Since she's a christian, they refused the water saying it was contaminated because she's a christian.

Let's see that glorious Religion of Peace at work, shall we? This one should be pretty simple, just set aside the death sentence and let her go back to her family, and live her life unharmed by you. After all, offering someone who is hot and thirsty a drink of water should not be a crime.
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,533 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Many Muslim supporters who post here claim religious tolerance, love for their fellow man, tolerance of other religions and their wish for nothing more than global brotherly love.

What lovely expressions and goals!

In reality,however, what we Westerners frequently see now is world-wide intolerance expressed by many Islamic groups, often seen in milling, angry street mobs, throwing Molotovs and stones, and grasping their beloved AKs. Perhaps this is partly the biases of our own Western media, however many fanatical Islamic splinter groups have taken complete credit for the violent actions of their members.

Question: as a supposedly peace-loving and tolerant religious group, do you all feel you are doing everything you can to counter the problems of radical Islam which you all must agree on and face up to? To deal with the world-view of Islam as an increasingly militant group managed by violence-prone zealots with an often-stated goal of world spiritual domination, with "death to the infidel!"?

Given the sensitivity of this issue, and it's high political, religious and cultural profile, should your local mosque group not perhaps do a lot more to root out radicals and fomentors of violence? Should you not be turning in those you even suspect of pressing for such anti-social and destructive behavior? Should your Mosque not be an advocate for preventing the needless deaths of innocent women and children? A few quiet speeches and claims don't cut it here: you need to be as vigorously outraged, or perhaps even more so, than we Westerners.

Would not your God, Allah, want you to seek peace through suppression of these radical fringe elements? Because otherwise, you'll have to accept the general stereotyping and profiling that accompanies your apparent willingness to just look the other way and not get directly involved.

Seems to me you have a golden opportunity these days to find and turn in those evil radicals, and to gain a new respect amongst us Westerners.

Allah won't do it for you, after all.





look, I am here in this forum from a long period but got me a lot of tha ban until I tired


I as muslim girl arab I hop that we Get rid of the Muslim extremists who

have distorted the image of our Islam and go away to Island alone


the extremists are Rejected in our Muslim society


I tell you words may have I told you previously and now I will say it now

Nothing in Islam, something called "kill the infidel" or "Attacked the infidel" unless in the Misunderstanding to the Quran and Sunnah


that's it
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:24 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
Reputation: 6050
I am just trying to figure out why Rifleman restricted his question to such a small (if not non-existent) audience!
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,527,052 times
Reputation: 3751
All right, RIFLEMAN, I have tried to be polite, but you won't allow it. Now I must remove the gloves. In the Sermon On The Mount, Christ said "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

You have taken great pains to describe the Mote in the Muslims' eye, so now let us consider the Beam in the Christians' eye. Please explain in detail why American Christians haven't done more to stop the horrendous acts of people like:

The Ku Klux Clan, who raided, terrorized, tortured and murdered blacks, Catholics and other non-white/non-Protestant peoples in the United States beginning shortly after the end of the Civil War. All of these acts, by the way, have taken place in the name of Jesus.

John Chivington, the ordained Methodist minister who organized and led the Sand Creek Massacre in 1864, an attack that destroyed a peaceful and sleeping encampment of mostly Cheyenne women, children and seniors. This in spite of the fact that the safety of these very people had been guaranteed only a few days before by representatives of the United States Government.

Jimmy Swaggert, a current-day minister who, in spite of his own proven and admitted -- uh -- departures from Christian practices, continues to be allowed/encouraged to attack the beliefs and practices of other Christian groups, including the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

The Army of God, a current-day American Christian terrorist organization that openly sanctions the use of lethal force to combat abortion.

The Lambs of Christ, another current-day American Christian terrorist organization whose members include several who have been convicted of the murders of physicians and other health care professionals who participated in abortions.

"Hutaree" (an as-yet unexplained acronym), still another current-day Christian terrorist group in the Midwest whose members are preparing for what they believe will be an apocalyptic battle with the forces of the Antichrist -- forces that, they believe, will be supported and defended by local, state and federal police departments. In other words, they're preparing their members to be Cop-Killers.

And by the way, I require an answer from you just like you "required" an answer from Muslims.

-- Nighteyes (who follows the teachings of Christ as he understands them)

Last edited by Nighteyes; 12-16-2010 at 06:42 PM..
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