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Old 01-04-2011, 10:44 AM
 
439 posts, read 482,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
And that, of course, is the hole in your logic. You're not willing to admit any other possibilities. Maybe it wasn't Allah. Every thread you've started, every argument you've made, comes down to a simple 50-50 proposition: either Allah is responsible for everything or not. There's as much chance that you're wrong as that you're right.
the possibilities are for those who do not know the correct answer.
but i know the correct answer.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:51 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,081 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not to appear to support these Islamic lies and deceptions, Box. My views on that are more than apparent. But . . . How can those "natural" forces come about from nothing or "we don't know" and still constitute scientific explanation?
"We don't know" is a scientific explanation, and I think that it's a better explanation than asserting undue confidence in what is really a wild guess.


Further, I don't think that a theory which suggests that an "omnipotent being created everything" solves the riddle, even if we believed it to be true. Because you still have the question of "how did s/he got here?" So that solution only punts the ball a bit further down the road, it doesn't provide an answer.
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Old 01-04-2011, 10:52 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,081 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
Hey computermaker nature and it properties was created by Allah and we are the one who taught the basis of the science .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_j70bwkSqQ
Sorry, I don't do argument via youtube.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:35 PM
 
439 posts, read 482,296 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
".... even if we believed it to be true. Because you still have the question of "how did s/he got here?"
Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your
Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such
thoughts."
prophet Muhamed peace and blessing of Allah be upon him
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,081 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your
Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such
thoughts."
prophet Muhamed peace and blessing of Allah be upon him
I have to admit that was a possibility I had never considered, but I don''t think is a very satisfying answer.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,883 posts, read 31,765,340 times
Reputation: 12628
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
the possibilities are for those who do not know the correct answer.
but i know the correct answer.
No you don't, you only think you know...The idea of a magic being that created all is beyond preposterous...There are, and never were any such beings.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,264 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
Satan comes to one of you and says, 'Who created so-and-so? 'till he says, 'Who has created your
Lord?' So, when he inspires such a question, one should seek refuge with Allah and give up such
thoughts."
prophet Muhamed peace and blessing of Allah be upon him
The End of Education: is that Satan; or was it the education of some sort which ended?
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Philippines
461 posts, read 509,618 times
Reputation: 216
1. Satan is not going to come to me. There is no Satan in the classic Christian/Islamic sense.

a. To assume that Satan exists, then we must accept that the cosmological world is the Earth in the center, surrounded by several "heavenly" layers that move upward or outward and by several "demonic" layers that move inward. We modern brains now realize that such a model is cute for sci-fi/fantasy, but is not reality.

b. The Satan of fundamental Christianity and Islam equates God and Satan as equals, even if Satan is only 99.9% equal. Worse, it creates this bipolar spiritual world when both religions declare that not only is there one God but that God is omni-everything.

If Satan truly exists, then Satan is a part of God. One may stretch the concept to state that God = Satan and Satan = God. The only difference between the two is mankind's interpretation of events in life, which is attributed to God acting in reality.

2. The true Satan, which simply means Adversary, is mankind itself.

People do not need some kind of outside force to make them anti-God. By nature, people are already an adversary to God. Our own nature makes us the God. We are our own Gods. The whole universe revolves around each of us, and to subservient ourselves to a greater conciousness requires that continual sacrifice of our own thinking and believing ourselves to be God.

3. Islam borrowed a great deal of mythology and philosophy from both Judaism and funamentalist Middle-Age Christianity. It is unfortunate that while Mohammed sought to create an individualistic identity for his people that he chose some of the worst parts of both Judaism and Christianity to incorporate into his form of monotheism.

Prior to the invasion of Hellenic thought, the Jews never in their wildest minds believed in a Satan of Christian/Islam form and substance. But I can see in the Arabic belief in the Jinn as a powerful influence. ONe does not simply throw the bathwater of one belief out to take on another belief. As we have seen across the world and history, new religions have always been accepted when the old religion is incorporated into the new.

4. Islam offers nothing new to the modern world.

With Islam, we have an even stricter code of do's and don'ts. As long as the followers complete their daily a-b-c's they are guaranteed eternal life. They are worse than those of Rabbinism. There is no inward change of heart. Everything is based on outward ceremony.

Their borrowing of the descent of the Kingdom of God is augmented by the Christian depiction of the Planic world, replete with eternal damnation and reward. Note: the Jews never envisioned an eternal damnation. That was--and is--a Christian invention.

The incorporation of angels and demons from the Christian perspective was not difficult, inasmuch as Arabic religions already had the same.

Jesus as a Messiah could never have been accepted by Mohammed. The Christians, having changed the Christ's philosophy under Charlamagne, demonstrated on a daily basis they hypocrisy of their religion of love and redemption to that worse than the Judaic belief that they were the Chosen and everyone else reduced to mere animals.

Well, Christianity basically still promotes a bastardized form of the Christ's philosophy. Loving one another is reduced to only loving people of the same philosophy, congregation, and/or religion. Forced conversion is now in the form of "you better for your soul's sake," replete with the transformation of a loving God into a vengeful God.

And Islam is no different. This Allah is nothing more than a vengeful God, as preached here on the Internet forums.

Gone is the whole notion that the Quran states that even Allah understands that Islam is not for all the people, that there are other paths to It. Instead, just like the godzombies of fundamentalistic Christianity, the godzombies of Islam desire that everyone be cut from the same man-created cloth and be unrealistically "one."

That some Islamic imams and charismatic leaders point to the Quran as the source of the belief that Allah wants all infidels wiped off the face of the Earth is another misinterpretation of a historical accounting found in the Quran, which is basically the Mohammed's actions out of frustration with one particular recalcitrant tribe, and then appy this as some kind of heavenly order to wipe out all non-Muslims.

Another thing the Muslims learned from Middle Age Christians.

5. Bottom line:

Islam does not offer any true hope or solution to life any more than fundamentalist Christianity. I do not see much hope in any of the Judaic sects either.

As long as people take their religion as a divider among people, the will of any God does not take place. That alone is the work of mankind, the work of Satan who is nothing more or nothing less than mankind itself.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,491,032 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallisdj View Post
1. Satan is not going to come to me. There is no Satan in the classic Christian/Islamic sense.

a. To assume that Satan exists, then we must accept that the cosmological world is the Earth in the center, surrounded by several "heavenly" layers that move upward or outward and by several "demonic" layers that move inward. We modern brains now realize that such a model is cute for sci-fi/fantasy, but is not reality.

b. The Satan of fundamental Christianity and Islam equates God and Satan as equals, even if Satan is only 99.9% equal. Worse, it creates this bipolar spiritual world when both religions declare that not only is there one God but that God is omni-everything.

If Satan truly exists, then Satan is a part of God. One may stretch the concept to state that God = Satan and Satan = God. The only difference between the two is mankind's interpretation of events in life, which is attributed to God acting in reality.

2. The true Satan, which simply means Adversary, is mankind itself.

People do not need some kind of outside force to make them anti-God. By nature, people are already an adversary to God. Our own nature makes us the God. We are our own Gods. The whole universe revolves around each of us, and to subservient ourselves to a greater conciousness requires that continual sacrifice of our own thinking and believing ourselves to be God.

3. Islam borrowed a great deal of mythology and philosophy from both Judaism and funamentalist Middle-Age Christianity. It is unfortunate that while Mohammed sought to create an individualistic identity for his people that he chose some of the worst parts of both Judaism and Christianity to incorporate into his form of monotheism.

Prior to the invasion of Hellenic thought, the Jews never in their wildest minds believed in a Satan of Christian/Islam form and substance. But I can see in the Arabic belief in the Jinn as a powerful influence. ONe does not simply throw the bathwater of one belief out to take on another belief. As we have seen across the world and history, new religions have always been accepted when the old religion is incorporated into the new.

4. Islam offers nothing new to the modern world.

With Islam, we have an even stricter code of do's and don'ts. As long as the followers complete their daily a-b-c's they are guaranteed eternal life. They are worse than those of Rabbinism. There is no inward change of heart. Everything is based on outward ceremony.

Their borrowing of the descent of the Kingdom of God is augmented by the Christian depiction of the Planic world, replete with eternal damnation and reward. Note: the Jews never envisioned an eternal damnation. That was--and is--a Christian invention.

The incorporation of angels and demons from the Christian perspective was not difficult, inasmuch as Arabic religions already had the same.

Jesus as a Messiah could never have been accepted by Mohammed. The Christians, having changed the Christ's philosophy under Charlamagne, demonstrated on a daily basis they hypocrisy of their religion of love and redemption to that worse than the Judaic belief that they were the Chosen and everyone else reduced to mere animals.

Well, Christianity basically still promotes a bastardized form of the Christ's philosophy. Loving one another is reduced to only loving people of the same philosophy, congregation, and/or religion. Forced conversion is now in the form of "you better for your soul's sake," replete with the transformation of a loving God into a vengeful God.

And Islam is no different. This Allah is nothing more than a vengeful God, as preached here on the Internet forums.

Gone is the whole notion that the Quran states that even Allah understands that Islam is not for all the people, that there are other paths to It. Instead, just like the godzombies of fundamentalistic Christianity, the godzombies of Islam desire that everyone be cut from the same man-created cloth and be unrealistically "one."

That some Islamic imams and charismatic leaders point to the Quran as the source of the belief that Allah wants all infidels wiped off the face of the Earth is another misinterpretation of a historical accounting found in the Quran, which is basically the Mohammed's actions out of frustration with one particular recalcitrant tribe, and then appy this as some kind of heavenly order to wipe out all non-Muslims.

Another thing the Muslims learned from Middle Age Christians.

5. Bottom line:

Islam does not offer any true hope or solution to life any more than fundamentalist Christianity. I do not see much hope in any of the Judaic sects either.

As long as people take their religion as a divider among people, the will of any God does not take place. That alone is the work of mankind, the work of Satan who is nothing more or nothing less than mankind itself.

Love your post. I've said things similar to some of what you've just typed in many of my posts, but this is all tidy and clear. Mine have been more of a ramble. Thank you.
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:56 AM
 
271 posts, read 304,163 times
Reputation: 35
Lightbulb God wants..., but some chose to follow their desires !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallisdj View Post
1. Satan is not going to come to me. There is no Satan in the classic Christian/Islamic sense.
There is Satan in the Islamic sense. Be specific.

Quote:
a. To assume that Satan exists, then we must accept that the cosmological world is the Earth in the center, surrounded by several "heavenly" layers that move upward or outward and by several "demonic" layers that move inward. We modern brains now realize that such a model is cute for sci-fi/fantasy, but is not reality
Again, No one said such a thing !

Quote:
b. The Satan of fundamental Christianity and Islam equates God and Satan as equals, even if Satan is only 99.9% equal. Worse, it creates this bipolar spiritual world when both religions declare that not only is there one God but that God is omni-everything.

If Satan truly exists, then Satan is a part of God. One may stretch the concept to state that God = Satan and Satan = God. The only difference between the two is mankind's interpretation of events in life, which is attributed to God acting in reality.
2. The true Satan, which simply means Adversary, is mankind itself.
People do not need some kind of outside force to make them anti-God. By nature, people are already an adversary to God. Our own nature makes us the God. We are our own Gods. The whole universe revolves around each of us, and to subservient ourselves to a greater conciousness requires that continual sacrifice of our own thinking and believing ourselves to be God.
"And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent."( Surat Al-'An`ām , 112)
Imam Al-Jalal said commenting:
And so We have appointed to every Prophet an enemy, just as We have appointed these your enemies (and this [‘adūwwan, ‘an enemy’, is substituted by [the following, shayātīn, ‘devils’]) devils, the rebels, of mankind and jinn who inspire, whisper, fine speech to each other, the falsehood that is disguised as such [fine speech], in delusion, that is, in order to delude them; yet, had your Lord willed, they would never have done it, that mutual inspiration. So leave them, let the disbelievers be, with what they fabricate, of disbelief and otherwise, of what has been adorned for them.

N.B:
Satan is by no means comparable to God in my religion.
God order people to follow his orders. Many of them are convinced by Satan they are so smart not to follow them, but they actually deceived by the Devil who wants all humans to go to hell.

What will he say in the day of judjment ?

"And Satan will say when the matter has been concluded, "Indeed, God had promised you the promise of truth. And I promised you, but I betrayed you. But I had no authority over you except that I invited you, and you responded to me. So do not blame me; but blame yourselves. I cannot be called to your aid, nor can you be called to my aid. Indeed, I deny your association of me [with Allah ] before. Indeed, for the wrongdoers is a painful punishment." ( quran 14:22)




Quote:
3. Islam borrowed a great deal of mythology and philosophy from both Judaism and funamentalist Middle-Age Christianity. It is unfortunate that while Mohammed sought to create an individualistic identity for his people that he chose some of the worst parts of both Judaism and Christianity to incorporate into his form of monotheism.

Prior to the invasion of Hellenic thought, the Jews never in their wildest minds believed in a Satan of Christian/Islam form and substance. But I can see in the Arabic belief in the Jinn as a powerful influence. ONe does not simply throw the bathwater of one belief out to take on another belief. As we have seen across the world and history, new religions have always been accepted when the old religion is incorporated into the new.
Surat Al- Furqaan:
"And those who disbelieve say, "This [Qur'an] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie.
And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."
Say, [O Muhammad], "It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful."
Quote:
4. Islam offers nothing new to the modern world.
With Islam, we have an even stricter code of do's and don'ts. As long as the followers complete their daily a-b-c's they are guaranteed eternal life. They are worse than those of Rabbinism. There is no inward change of heart. Everything is based on outward ceremony.

Their borrowing of the descent of the Kingdom of God is augmented by the Christian depiction of the Planic world, replete with eternal damnation and reward. Note: the Jews never envisioned an eternal damnation. That was--and is--a Christian invention.

The incorporation of angels and demons from the Christian perspective was not difficult, inasmuch as Arabic religions already had the same.

Jesus as a Messiah could never have been accepted by Mohammed. The Christians, having changed the Christ's philosophy under Charlamagne, demonstrated on a daily basis they hypocrisy of their religion of love and redemption to that worse than the Judaic belief that they were the Chosen and everyone else reduced to mere animals.
God order THE BEST for us .
"Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded. "( surat Nahl, 90)

Quote:
Well, Christianity basically still promotes a bastardized form of the Christ's philosophy. Loving one another is reduced to only loving people of the same philosophy, congregation, and/or religion. Forced conversion is now in the form of "you better for your soul's sake," replete with the transformation of a loving God into a vengeful God.

And Islam is no different. This Allah is nothing more than a vengeful God, as preached here on the Internet forums.

Gone is the whole notion that the Quran states that even Allah understands that Islam is not for all the people, that there are other paths to It. Instead, just like the godzombies of fundamentalistic Christianity, the godzombies of Islam desire that everyone be cut from the same man-created cloth and be unrealistically "one."

That some Islamic imams and charismatic leaders point to the Quran as the source of the belief that Allah wants all infidels wiped off the face of the Earth is another misinterpretation of a historical accounting found in the Quran, which is basically the Mohammed's actions out of frustration with one particular recalcitrant tribe, and then appy this as some kind of heavenly order to wipe out all non-Muslims.

Another thing the Muslims learned from Middle Age Christians.
You are really mixing islam with others

-Forced conversion is unknown in islam.
- "[O Muhammad], inform My servants that it is I who am the Forgiving, the Merciful. And that My Penalty will be indeed the most grievous Penalty. " (Al Hijr, 49, 50)
- Islam is for Who respond to God message, watever who he is, his nation, race, color,sex, intelligence, talents, All are poor in front of their creator.
- Allah wants:
"Allah wants to make clear to you [the lawful from the unlawful] and guide you to the [good] practices of those before you and to accept your repentance. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.
Allah wants to accept your repentance, but those who follow [their] passions want you to digress [into] a great deviation.
And Allah wants to lighten for you [your difficulties]; and mankind was created weak." (Surat An-Nisa' [4:26-29] - The Holy Qur'an - ا„‚رآ† ا„ƒرŠ…)


Quote:
5. Bottom line:

Islam does not offer any true hope or solution to life any more than fundamentalist Christianity. I do not see much hope in any of the Judaic sects either.

As long as people take their religion as a divider among people, the will of any God does not take place. That alone is the work of mankind, the work of Satan who is nothing more or nothing less than mankind itself.
"They who believe and do not mix their belief with injustice - those will have security, and they are [rightly] guided. "
In this life and hereafter.
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