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Old 01-05-2011, 05:48 AM
 
439 posts, read 483,715 times
Reputation: 31

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I have to admit that was a possibility I had never considered, but I don''t think is a very satisfying answer.

when some one does not want to accept the truth then he create a problem or create something not logical



Allah is the creator .

every thing else is created .

if allah was created then he would not be the creator and he would be the created.

therefore it is wrong to ask who created Allah because he was not created.


the laws and rules of the universe is created by Allah and it does not apply on him.

he does not need any thing to create the universe .

To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He
saith to it: "Be," and it is.


And Our Command is but a single (Act),- like the twinkling of an eye.


Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.


It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!

When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:09 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,749,724 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
when some one does not want to accept the truth then he create a problem or create something not logical



Allah is the creator .

every thing else is created .

if allah was created then he would not be the creator and he would be the created.

therefore it is wrong to ask who created Allah because he was not created.


the laws and rules of the universe is created by Allah and it does not apply on him.

he does not need any thing to create the universe .

To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He
saith to it: "Be," and it is.


And Our Command is but a single (Act),- like the twinkling of an eye.


Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
And there is none like unto Him.


It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him!

When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

And lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord. So serve Him. That is the right path.
If you are willing to admit the possibility that a being could have always existed, (even though we have no clue how), then you must admit that same possibility for the universe as a whole.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Philippines
461 posts, read 511,542 times
Reputation: 216
Satan in Islam is referred to and thought of as a "person" or "being." It is no different when fundamentalist Christians speak of Satan.


One does not have to come out and say a particular thing to accept the existence of a supernatural being, which we will name Satan. The whole concept of the modern Satan is based on a Platonic view of the world.

One need not state that the sun is the center of the universe before talking about concepts of orbital influences. However, when one starts talking about how certain stars and constellations impact a human's life, then we fall back on mythology.

Satan is mythological and metaphorical. But the writings were that generally deal with Satan as a real live thing require an acceptance of the old, out-dated, and disproved "reality" of Plato's world.
a. To assume that Satan exists, then we must accept that the cosmological world is the Earth in the center, surrounded by several "heavenly" layers that move upward or outward and by several "demonic" layers that move inward. We modern brains now realize that such a model is cute for sci-fi/fantasy, but is not reality
Your quote from Surat Al-'An`ām , 112 and the procedding commentary underscore what I am trying to point out. There are no Jinn or devils. So, in defending your point, can you not see the invalidity when you quote sources that clearly believe in the unbelievable?

Your quote: "Satan is by no means comparable to God in my religion.
God order people to follow his orders. Many of them are convinced by Satan they are so smart not to follow them, but they actually deceived by the Devil who wants all humans to go to hell."

This is your belief that the Platonic cosmos exists. There is no "heaven," and there is no "hell."

1. There is no proof of the Plato vision of the cosmos.

2. God is not some creature "up there" ordering anything. God is inherent in all of us. We are God or at least a part of God.

3. The deception requires no other supernatural creature. We do it. We are the Satan--of each other and of the God who is all. It is time that we own up to the fact that "we dood it" and stop blaming something or someone else.

Your Quran ( quran 14:22) coyly copies the New Testament and the allegedly spoken words of Jesus regarding the Day of Judgement. It proves nothing, but it is indicative of the wrong thinking that was introduced by the Christ and his philosophy in the first place.

It is lamentable that your Prophet Muhammed did not understand just how much Christ's philosophy and message was distorted to fit the old Judaic vision of justice and retribution.

How diferent is it when you quote Surat Al- Furqaan, ( surat Nahl, 90), (Surat An-Nisa' [4:26-29] - The Holy Qur'an, and others from Christian fundamentalists? Not a whit. You all quote from a supposed "holy" source and blithely ignore the real God who continues to tap you on your shoulder, crying: "Hey! I'm over here!"

Forced conversion is a reality in Islam. If you ignore the vehemence against anyone who is not Muslim--again a violation of the Quran--then you have your head in the sand. Sorry.

Also, we cannot ignore the fact that anyone who is enticed to leave Islam for a different religion faces death.

To completely ignore the agenda of the Taliban is also putting one's head in the sand. Forced conversion is a reality, and not just to Islam as a whole but to a form of Islam.

To say the the Shi-ites and the Sunnis get along is just plain dreaming. What hinders any sane person from accepting Islam is that Muslims have swords in both hands, ready to shed blood in the name of Allah.

At least among Christian sects, they may damn each other eternally, but they do not run rampant across the countryside murdering each other, at least not since the 100 years war. There have been a few exceptions, but nothing like we are seeing in the Muslim world.

Unfortunately, my friend, your conclusion hold no more water than so many fundamentalist Christian nonsense I have heard for six decades. God is not going to "reward" in this life simply for following rules and being good. If that were remotely true, the whole world would be following one religion and being good to each other. We would all be vying for God's most beloved affection, just so that we would have a better life than our neighbor.

You see, not only is religion personal and not universal, what organized religion has done is to reinforce the "Me-ism" that is of the very nature of the Satan or Adversary. We don't give a damn about each other, and the very substance of organized religion does not care either. Read between the lines and even directly of the message: "If YOU do such-and-such, then YOU will be greatly rewarded." What happened to your neighbor?

Even as the Christ summed it up succinctly: Love your neighbor, the Quran also echoes this very simply message. But both sources of messages have been drowned in the lifting up of "Me-ism," which is now the true religion.

"I am saved! Ha-ha! And I'm going to get my rocks off watching you burn!"

If this is your idea of God, then I want to have nothing to do with it, whether it is packaged Christian, Islamic, Judaic, or whatever flavor you might think of. Because that God just ain't God.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:46 AM
 
439 posts, read 483,715 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
If you are willing to admit the possibility that a being could have always existed, (even though we have no clue how), then you must admit that same possibility for the universe as a whole.
i pray to Allah to make you choose the correct possibility.

Last edited by finalmessage; 01-06-2011 at 06:36 AM..
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