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Old 12-21-2010, 06:17 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 800,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
So, your god says it's okay to rape a child. That's your lame excuse.

She girl was six when he married her, and barely nine when he raped her. He did enough damage to her that she was incapable of having children. This is okay according to your god? Culturally speaking, back then a man wasn't supposed to have sex with a girl until after she had started menstruation. At nine years old, during that time period, this wouldn't have been occurring; it wouldn't have happened until 12-14 at the earliest. It's only dropped in modern times due to nutrition and other factors. Even these days, nine is unusually early.

So even though "things were different back then" as you lamely suggest, she would still have been too young according to the laws.
Did I write it was okay to rape a child? No. My god? I don't own a god. My excuse? What was I excusing? Read better, please.
Nine is the age speculated by Hadith author Sahih al-Bukhari. How could he validate a 200 year old oral story? I don't follow or believe any of the Hadiths. Most modern scholars believe she was between 12-14. When I was in basic training, a guy in my platoon had a wife that was 13. I don't think that was rape.
Learn some history, maybe this will help;
Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was life then. Marriages weren't consumated until the bride was able. It wasn't just there, it was a widespread way of life in many cultures outside of the Middle East. That's not a "lame excuse", it's a fact. A stubborn fact.

Last edited by WonderingWanderer; 12-21-2010 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:58 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6047
Default Preposterous!

The thread title is a preposterous question undeserving of serious comment or response other than incredulity and disdain.
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:36 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 800,175 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The thread title is a preposterous question undeserving of serious comment or response other than incredulity and disdain.
I agree, perhaps I should have simply looked at it in that light and remained quiet.
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Old 12-21-2010, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,335,155 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
Did I write it was okay to rape a child? No. My god? I don't own a god. My excuse? What was I excusing? Read better, please.
Nine is the age speculated by Hadith author Sahih al-Bukhari. How could he validate a 200 year old oral story? I don't follow or believe any of the Hadiths. Most modern scholars believe she was between 12-14. When I was in basic training, a guy in my platoon had a wife that was 13. I don't think that was rape.
Learn some history, maybe this will help;
Child marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That was life then. Marriages weren't consumated until the bride was able. It wasn't just there, it was a widespread way of life in many cultures outside of the Middle East. That's not a "lame excuse", it's a fact. A stubborn fact.
A question arises of moral absolutes. If there is indeed an absolute of good in the universe, and two cultures have a disagreement upon the morality of an action, then a determination must be made. Is it us, in the modern times who frown upon the practice of child wives who are wrong, or was it Mohammed's culture, which accepted it as normal, who was wrong? Or are you willing to attempt to make the claim that absolute morality has changed since that time?
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Old 12-21-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 800,175 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
A question arises of moral absolutes. If there is indeed an absolute of good in the universe, and two cultures have a disagreement upon the morality of an action, then a determination must be made. Is it us, in the modern times who frown upon the practice of child wives who are wrong, or was it Mohammed's culture, which accepted it as normal, who was wrong? Or are you willing to attempt to make the claim that absolute morality has changed since that time?
Good point. My thought is that Mohammed's culture was wrong. I am nothing but a simple man, and that is strictly a personal opinion. I also do not believe in absolute morality.
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Old 12-21-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,335,155 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
Good point. My thought is that Mohammed's culture was wrong. I am nothing but a simple man, and that is strictly a personal opinion. I also do not believe in absolute morality.
If you do not believe in absolute morality, would it not be true then that everything is permitted? If a God such as Allah exists, would it not be the will of such a God that permeates morality throughout the cosmos? If not, then who is to say whether or not our current moral beliefs hold any credence? And if they do not, then who are we to judge those who act outside of those boundaries as they may be found acceptable in future generations?
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 800,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
If you do not believe in absolute morality, would it not be true then that everything is permitted? If a God such as Allah exists, would it not be the will of such a God that permeates morality throughout the cosmos? If not, then who is to say whether or not our current moral beliefs hold any credence? And if they do not, then who are we to judge those who act outside of those boundaries as they may be found acceptable in future generations?
There's no question (in my mind) that a creator exists, I don't think it is God, or a god in the way or fashion typically supposed by most humans. I don't think his name is Allah anymore than my name is Sonny - even though my Dad calls me that. Some kind of creator has to exist, and I think it is fair and just.

Morals...hmm...such a difficult subject. There are so many situational variables that we could argue forever and never reach an agreement or even a reasonable conclusion. I tend to lean more to the value pluralist side.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:24 AM
 
439 posts, read 482,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
... I don't think his name is Allah ...
surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth.

The name of the creator is Allah

he also has many other beautiful names



Allah! There is no deity save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. The Noble Quran 2:255.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 800,175 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth.

The name of the creator is Allah

he also has many other beautiful names



Allah! There is no deity save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. The Noble Quran 2:255.
It is still a contraction of words that essentially mean "the (al) god (ilah). At most, it is a title, but it is mainly a description. While we definitely have a creator, we (or at least, for me) don't know his/ her/ its actual name.

Maybe one of the geniuses on or watching this thread could "enlighten" us.
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Old 12-22-2010, 01:00 PM
 
271 posts, read 304,028 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
It is still a contraction of words that essentially mean "the (al) god (ilah). At most, it is a title, but it is mainly a description. While we definitely have a creator, we (or at least, for me) don't know his/ her/ its actual name.

Maybe one of the geniuses on or watching this thread could "enlighten" us.
so, your main problem is that "the (al) god (ilah) looks similar
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