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Old 12-23-2010, 11:42 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,754,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth light View Post


Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:42-45] - The Qur'an
And [mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed God has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of the worlds.

O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow [in prayer]."

That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.

[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to God ].

Don't you understand why those Koran quotes would not be persuasive to people who believe the Koran is a work of fiction?
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,522 posts, read 10,373,025 times
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These are the Native American 10 Commandments

1. Treat the Earth and all that dwell therein with respect.

2. Remain close to the Creator.

3. Show great respect for your fellow beings.

4. Work together for the benefit of all Mankind.

5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.

6. Do what you know to be right.

7. Look after the well-being of Mind and Body.

8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater Good.

9. Be truthful and honest at all times.

10. Take full responsibility for your actions.

If you wish to be educated more take the time to read this, it is part of our laws and traditions. Educate yourself.

Native American Code Of Ethics : Pearls of Wisdom
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:43 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,445,026 times
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These are the Native American 10 Commandments

1. Treat the Earth and all that dwell therein with respect.

2. Remain close to the Creator.

3. Show great respect for your fellow beings.

4. Work together for the benefit of all Mankind.

5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.

6. Do what you know to be right.

7. Look after the well-being of Mind and Body.

8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater Good.

9. Be truthful and honest at all times.

10. Take full responsibility for your actions.

We should all aspire to these no matter what religion we are. I believe if we spent more time doing this rather then trying to show others how wrong you think they are the world would be a better place! As a Jew these are what I aspire to follow.

Thanks Ptsum for these!!

Jazzy
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,522 posts, read 10,373,025 times
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I invite you all to read the traditional code of ethics at the bottom of my previous post.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,045,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
elwill, my question is very simple, can you not speak for yourself, in your own words and own opinion without quoting from the Qur'an? When you quote from your sacred book to answer a question you are not using your words, you are using somebody else's, that is why I asked the question, do you not have a thought or opinion of your own. I ask the question or make a statement and I am quoted a passage of some sort from your sacred book, these are not your words, these are somebody else's words. All I ask is that you speak for yourself using your own words. Is that possible?
what is your question , and i will respond without quoting quran ( as you want )
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,045,951 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
These are the Native American 10 Commandments

1. Treat the Earth and all that dwell therein with respect.

2. Remain close to the Creator.

3. Show great respect for your fellow beings.

4. Work together for the benefit of all Mankind.

5. Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.

6. Do what you know to be right.

7. Look after the well-being of Mind and Body.

8. Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater Good.

9. Be truthful and honest at all times.

10. Take full responsibility for your actions.

If you wish to be educated more take the time to read this, it is part of our laws and traditions. Educate yourself.

Native American Code Of Ethics : Pearls of Wisdom
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,522 posts, read 10,373,025 times
Reputation: 6874
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
what is your question , and i will respond without quoting quran ( as you want )
okay, Muslims claim, and correct me if I'm wrong and no disrespect here, that their sacred book was given to them by your prophet Mohammed and yet the words were not written down until almost 100 years after his passing and those words were written by somebody else, is it not possible that those who wrote those words were giving it their own interpretation and not that of your prophet Mohammed?
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:36 PM
 
271 posts, read 305,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
okay, Muslims claim, and correct me if I'm wrong and no disrespect here, that their sacred book was given to them by your prophet Mohammed and yet the words were not written down until almost 100 years after his passing and those words were written by somebody else, is it not possible that those who wrote those words were giving it their own interpretation and not that of your prophet Mohammed?
Are you serious ?!
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:44 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,445,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth light View Post
Are you serious ?!

The Qur'an was not written down during Muhammad's lifetime but in fact well after his death. I have included the websites for further reading for anyone interested.


Compiling the Mus'haf
See also: Mus'haf and Tahrif



Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compiling the Mus'haf
See also: Mus'haf and Tahrif


Qur'an manuscript from the 7th century CE, written on vellum in the Hijazi script.
According to Shias, Sufis and scarce Sunni scholars, Ali compiled a complete version of the Qur’an mus'haf [5] immediately after Muhammad's death. The order of this mus'haf differed from that gathered later during Uthman's era. Despite this, Ali made no objection or resistance against standardized mus'haf, but kept his own book.[35][39]
After seventy reciters were killed in the Battle of Yamama, the caliph Abu Bakr decided to collect the different chapters and verses into one volume. Thus, a group of reciters, including Zayd ibn Thabit, collected the chapters and verses and produced several hand-written copies of the complete book.[11][35]


9th century Qur'an manuscript.
In about 650, as Islam expanded beyond the Arabian peninsula into Persia, the Levant and North Africa, the third caliph Uthman ibn Affan ordered the preparation of an official, standardized version, to preserve the sanctity of the text (and perhaps to keep the Rashidun Empire united, see Uthman Qur'an). Five reciters from amongst the companions produced a unique text from the first volume, which had been prepared on the orders of Abu Bakr and was kept with Hafsa bint Umar. The other copies already in the hands of Muslims in other areas were collected and sent to Medina where, on orders of the Caliph, they were destroyed by burning or boiling. This remains the authoritative text of the Qur’an to this day.[35][40][41]
The Qur’an in its present form is generally considered by academic scholars to record the words spoken by Muhammad because the search for variants in Western academia has not yielded any differences of great significance and because, historically, controversy over the content of the Qur’an has never become a main point.[42]

The Compilation of The Quran (http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/shamoun/compilation%20of%20the%20quran.html - broken link)

Premise

There exists within the Islamic community a major fallacy which has been circulating amongst the public in regards to Muslim Scripture, al-Qur'an. The fallacy relates to the supposed textual preservation of the Qur'anic text, and the notion that the Qur'an remains virtually intact, without additions or deletions, without any variant readings which would call into question the integrity of the Muslim text.

This fallacious argument, unfortunately, has convinced many lay people to believe that whereas the Bible has suffered textual corruption, the Qur'an is free from such tampering. It is thus claimed that based on this fact the Qur'an is rendered superior and is a more reliable document than the Holy Bible.

However, a close examination of the historical references regarding the compilation of the Qur'an, demonstrates that the weight of the evidence does not support the Muslim claims. On the contrary, the evidence tends to support the fact that the Qur'an has suffered much in the way of transmission.

Let's examine the REAL TRUTH of the QUR'AN

The majority of our references will be taken directly from Islamic scholars and writings, in order to avoid the Muslim accusations of Western scholarly bias. Such accusations are often promoted in an attempt to side-track the obvious implications on Muslim claims.

The first issue that needs to be addressed is the claim that a complete Qur'anic Codex existed during the time of Muhammad. This claim finds no support, since the first complete text was compiled during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr:



http://www.averroespress.com/Averroe...the_Quran.html

Friends,

Ten years ago, this cover story in The Atlantic caused quite a stir. It revealed, researchers were proposing new theories about Islam’s holy book and Islamic history to reinterpret Islam for the modern world.

I believe Muslims will be well served if they read this essay rather than burn it. We do not have to agree with the findings, but we need to know how academia views the Muslim holy book.

Read and reflect.

Toby Lester
The Atlantic Monthly

IN 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana'a, in Yemen, laborers working in a loft between the structure's inner and outer roofs stumbled across a remarkable gravesite, although they did not realize it at the time. Their ignorance was excusable: mosques do not normally house graves, and this site contained no tombstones, no human remains, no funereal jewellery.

It contained nothing more, in fact, than an unappealing mash of old parchment and paper documents—damaged books and individual pages of Arabic text, fused together by centuries of rain and dampness, gnawed into over the years by rats and insects. Intent on completing the task at hand, the laborers gathered up the manuscripts, pressed them into some twenty potato sacks, and set them aside on the staircase of one of the mosque's minarets, where they were locked away—and where they would probably have been forgotten once again, were it not for Qadhi Isma'il al-Akwa', then the president of the Yemeni Antiquities Authority, who realized the potential importance of the find.



Al-Akwa' sought international assistance in examining and preserving the fragments, and in 1979 managed to interest a visiting German scholar, who in turn persuaded the German government to organize and fund a restoration project. Soon after the project began, it became clear that the hoard was a fabulous example of what is sometimes referred to as a "paper grave"—in this case the resting place for, among other things, tens of thousands of fragments from close to a thousand different parchment codices of the Koran, the Muslim holy scripture.

In some pious Muslim circles it is held that worn-out or damaged copies of the Koran must be removed from circulation; hence the idea of a grave, which both preserves the sanctity of the texts being laid to rest and ensures that only complete and unblemished editions of the scripture will be read.

Tarek
----------------
January 1999

Last edited by Jazzymom; 12-23-2010 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:08 PM
 
271 posts, read 305,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
The Qur'an was not written down during Muhammad's lifetime but in fact well after his death. I have included the websites for further reading for anyone interested.
100 years after his passing !
Does this sound normal?!
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