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Old 12-25-2010, 08:55 PM
 
40,117 posts, read 26,779,715 times
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[quote=Muslim22;17135648]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post


From this point on, the scope of jihad was broadened from being purely for defense against direct attack to being inclusive of resistance against those who suppress the faith and deny people the freedom to choose their religion for themselves. This came later, because it is legislated for the Muslims only when they are capable of doing so. In times of weakness, Muslims may only fight against direct attack.

As for the spread of Islam, this is supposed to take place peacefully by disseminating the Message with the written and spoken word. There is no place for the use of weapons to compel people to accept Islam. Weapons can only be drawn against those who persecute and oppress others and prevent them from following their own consciences in matters of belief. The Muslims cannot just stand by while people are being denied the right to believe in Islam and their voices are being crushed.
This is the meaning of Allah’s words: [SIZE=2]“And fight them on until there is no more terrorism or oppression and there prevails a way for justice and faith in Allah.” [/SIZE][Surah al-Baqarah: 193]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said in his letter to the Roman governor Heracles: “I invite you to accept Islam. If you accept Islam, you will find safety. If you accept Islam, Allah will give you a double reward. However, if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.” [Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim]

Once people have heard the Message without obstruction or hindrance and the proof has been established upon them, then the duty of the Muslims is done. Those who wish to believe are free to do so and those who prefer to disbelieve are likewise free to do so.

Even when the Muslims are compelled to fight and then subdue the land, their duty thereafter is to establish Allah’s law in the land and uphold justice for all people, Muslim and non-Muslim. It is not their right to coerce their subjects to accept Islam against their will. Non-Muslims under Muslim rule must be allowed to remain on their own faith and must be allowed to practice the rights of their faith, though they will be expected to respect the laws of the land.

Had the purpose of jihad been to force the unbelievers to accept Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) would never have commanded the Muslims to refrain from hostilities if the enemy relented. He would not have prohibited the killing of women and children. However, this is exactly what he did.

During a battle, the Prophet (peace be upon him) saw people gathered together. He dispatched a man to find out why they were gathered. The man returned and said: “They are gathered around a slain woman.” So Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: “She should not have been attacked!” Khalid b. al-Walid was leading the forces, so he dispatched a man to him saying: “‘Tell Khalid not to kill women or laborers”. [Sunan Abu Dawud]

You can find everything here.
Yusef Estes kill
What unabashed lies! Shame on you and your religion for countenancing such outright lies and deceit in the name of Allah and the spread of Sharia.Taquiyyah is an evil doctrine.
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:11 PM
 
122 posts, read 126,918 times
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[quote=MysticPhD;17135795]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
What unabashed lies! Shame on you and your religion for countenancing such outright lies and deceit in the name of Allah and the spread of Sharia.Taquiyyah is an evil doctrine.
Where is the lie here ?
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:39 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
elwill, I have doing a little bit of reading of your sacred book and there are a few verses that I would like for you to explain to me their meaning. These verses are from Chapter 9.

A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances: Chp.9.1

Go ye,then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him. Chp.9.2

My question to you concerning these two verses, is who do you consider Pagans and in whose land are these verses talking about?
it's talking about pagans of qurish , and the land in general .

There was a long-established custom of observing those four months as those in which fighting is forbidden. and it was time for hajj

The Arabs used to consider these months sacred during the time of Jahiliyyah


Quote:
Now I have questions about these other verses from Chapter 9.

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguere them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. Chp.9.5

If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. Chp.9.6

What would happen if I refuse to believe in your Allah? Would you be obligated by your sacred book to attempt to take my life?

the verse suggest to escort him to where he can be secure as an independent action
this Ayah, "Refers to someone who comes to you to hear what you say and what was revealed to you (O Muhammad). Therefore, he is safe until he comes to you, hears Allah's Words and then proceeds to the safe area where he came from.'' The Messenger of Allah used to thereafter grant safe passage to those who came to him from his enemy for guidance or to deliver a message.

so i'm obligated to secure you ( in the case if we are in war ) if you came to me for peace , your accepting to the massage or your denying it isn't the issue here

Last edited by elwill; 12-26-2010 at 04:47 AM..
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,337,863 times
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elwill, I am still trying to understand why it is that some, and I say some, not all, of those of the Islamic faith feel that it is necessary to take the lives of others because they do not believe as they do, perhaps they are being misguided by their leaders? Understand I am neither a believer in Islam, Christianity or any other religious belief and I do not consider myself a Pagan. I am a Native American, Tasisgi to be exact and my culture and belief is a very very ancient one and we have learned to be very tolerant of all others beliefs and religions as long as they do not try to force theirs upon us. We make those changes of our own free will, not because somebody tells us we have to. If I were to visit your land, I would respect your laws and beliefs but that does not mean that I believe in them and if you were to visit my land I would expect the same respect from you. I have enjoyed our conversation so far, I have learned a few things about your belief, some I may not agree with but that's your belief not mine, I have learned that your laws and religion are one and the same, whereas my laws and cultural belief are two different things. Personally I feel that aside from all the different beliefs and religions that if we were to treat one another as human beings this world would be a much better place to live in so with that, as we the Tsalagi would say when ending the conversation. wa-do osay
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,557 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
elwill, I am still trying to understand why it is that some, and I say some, not all, of those of the Islamic faith feel that it is necessary to take the lives of others because they do not believe as they do, perhaps they are being misguided by their leaders?

i'm trying to understand either why always i hear from nonmuslims that muslims want to take the lives of others because they are not muslims , while in the fact i can't see those supposed misguided muslims saying it

basically , if theire are those muslims who believs that every nonmuslim should be killed because he isn't muslim then he is misguided offcourse
but i'm interested to know where are those misguided groups and what they said exactly about this issue ?


Quote:
Understand I am neither a believer in Islam, Christianity or any other religious belief and I do not consider myself a Pagan. I am a Native American, Tasisgi to be exact and my culture and belief is a very very ancient one and we have learned to be very tolerant of all others beliefs and religions as long as they do not try to force theirs upon us. We make those changes of our own free will, not because somebody tells us we have to. If I were to visit your land, I would respect your laws and beliefs but that does not mean that I believe in them and if you were to visit my land I would expect the same respect from you.




Quote:
I have enjoyed our conversation so far, I have learned a few things about your belief, some I may not agree with but that's your belief not mine, I have learned that your laws and religion are one and the same, whereas my laws and cultural belief are two different things. Personally I feel that aside from all the different beliefs and religions that if we were to treat one another as human beings this world would be a much better place to live in so with that, as we the Tsalagi would say when ending the conversation. wa-do osay
i have enjoyed the conversation with you either , and i hope to get a chance to talking with you again

peace to you
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