U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:02 PM
 
122 posts, read 126,903 times
Reputation: 25

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
Then why doesn't Islam consider changing the behavior towards women and allow them the same freedoms of men???
So,u r saying that women who work with men on the same job and men are being paid the same amount of money as women who face natural difficulty is not opprission.

If u say yes,then what about putting a blind man with a man who can see and tell them to race each other.U would say no because he is blind and can't see and he has difficulty.So if we put them together on the same race without considering the diffuclty of the blind man,we are opprissing the blind.Don't u think so ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:06 PM
 
848 posts, read 963,770 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
So,u r saying that women who work with men on the same job and men are being paid the same amount of money as women who face natural difficulty is not opprission.

If u say yes,then what about putting a blind man with a man who can see and tell them to race each other.U would say no because he is blind and can't see and he has difficulty.So if we put them together on the same race without considering the diffuclty of the blind man,we are opprissing the blind.Don't u think so ?

Would you not agree that a purple monkey who sees halucinations and can fly is a great monkey and should not be locked up in a zoo?

You see, I too can ask irrelevant questions that distract from the main issue.
Maybe you can stick to the topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:11 PM
 
122 posts, read 126,903 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
Would you not agree that a purple monkey who sees halucinations and can fly is a great monkey and should not be locked up in a zoo?

You see, I too can ask irrelevant questions that distract from the main issue.
Maybe you can stick to the topic.
It is a relevant question but u don't wanna answer it U wanna tell me muslim women are oppressed and Westren women aren't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:12 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 801,309 times
Reputation: 229
I can certainly understand the point you're making.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:21 PM
 
848 posts, read 963,770 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
It is a relevant question but u don't wanna answer it U wanna tell me muslim women are oppressed and Westren women aren't.
I disagree with you that women are oppressed because their salaries do not take into consideration their suffering through childbirth and mentrual cycles. I have a friend who has a learning disability. He has trouble spelling words correctly and forming sentences when he is writing. He has to work twice as hard as most others to do his job, which he does well for the most part.
Should he get paid more because of his disability? Is he oppressed because he does not?

What is laughable is your comparison of oppression: inequality in the workplace (although I disagree with you what that is) and women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc not allowed to walk without an escort, among other disgraces. I don't know if these are things that are specifically ordered by your religion or if it is just a backwards culture, but these things exist nonetheless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:29 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
Here is the definition of oppression:

Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.


Women who face punishment for going out in public without Islamic covering are being oppresses. When you FEAR arrest or being beaten you are being oppressed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:36 PM
 
122 posts, read 126,903 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
I disagree with you that women are oppressed because their salaries do not take into consideration their suffering through childbirth and mentrual cycles. I have a friend who has a learning disability. He has trouble spelling words correctly and forming sentences when he is writing. He has to work twice as hard as most others to do his job, which he does well for the most part.
Should he get paid more because of his disability? Is he oppressed because he does not?

What is laughable is your comparison of oppression: inequality in the workplace (although I disagree with you what that is) and women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc not allowed to walk without an escort, among other disgraces. I don't know if these are things that are specifically ordered by your religion or if it is just a backwards culture, but these things exist nonetheless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
I disagree with you that women are oppressed because their salaries do not take into consideration their suffering through childbirth and mentrual cycles. I have a friend who has a learning disability. He has trouble spelling words correctly and forming sentences when he is writing. He has to work twice as hard as most others to do his job, which he does well for the most part.
Should he get paid more because of his disability? Is he oppressed because he does not?

What is laughable is your comparison of oppression: inequality in the workplace (although I disagree with you what that is) and women in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, etc not allowed to walk without an escort, among other disgraces. I don't know if these are things that are specifically ordered by your religion or if it is just a backwards culture, but these things exist nonetheless.
Ok for the first point I see this opprission because there are natural things that people can't change because God made them like that.And,I am sorry about your friend and I hope him to be always better.

In Islam women don't even have to work if she doesn't to.Moreover,the husband has to spend money on her and the family with respecting her.There is an old saying which I think is funny"what is mine is mine and what is his is mine too"



For the second point yes she is mostly with someone of her family to protect her.When she is protected,that doesn't mean oppressions because that is what is good for her.

And that is why she needs protection:

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.

Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).
There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:45 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
Ok for the first point I see this opprission because there are natural things that people can't change because God made them like that.And,I am sorry about your friend and I hope him to be always better.

In Islam women don't even have to work if she doesn't to.Moreover,the husband has to spend money on her and the family with respecting her.There is an old saying which I think is funny"what is mine is mine and what is his is mine too"



For the second point yes she is mostly with someone of her family to protect her.When she is protected,that doesn't mean oppressions because that is what is good for her.

And that is why she needs protection:

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.

Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).
There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

________

You are doing a good job of ignoring what true oppression is. So I will give you the definition again.

Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.

Rape occurs in Muslim countries too. It often goes unreported because in many Muslim countries the woman is often arrested and given a harsh sentence because the attitude which you have shown here is that if a girl is raped she must have done something to deserve it.

In my country women are not oppressed. Women may work, get an education, go out in public and dress as they like. They have choices.

Woman do not need the protection of a family, we are fully capable of being responsible for our lives. We do not need our fathers or brothers to be our guardians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:51 PM
 
848 posts, read 963,770 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
Ok for the first point I see this opprission because there are natural things that people can't change because God made them like that.And,I am sorry about your friend and I hope him to be always better.

In Islam women don't even have to work if she doesn't to.Moreover,the husband has to spend money on her and the family with respecting her.There is an old saying which I think is funny"what is mine is mine and what is his is mine too"



For the second point yes she is mostly with someone of her family to protect her.When she is protected,that doesn't mean oppressions because that is what is good for her.

And that is why she needs protection:

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.

Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).
There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes

http://www.rainn.org/statistics

________
Your claim "because that is what is good for her" is the root of your oppression. What makes you think you know what is best for her? Sounds arrogant to me.

In the USA women do not have to work if they do not want to. No one does. But most of them want to. They spent much of the last century fighting for the same rights as men. We value the ability to be self sufficient. If you were to look at our country 200 years ago you would see a different picture. Women were not equal, much like yours. And that's the problem. Your culture is stuck in a centuries-old mentality, which explains why you still stone people.

You quote crime statistics, and I agree with you there is too much crime. But when a woman is raped here, the rapist is sought and hopefully caught and punished. In Saudi the women is punished because the victim did something wrong. She did not have protection. Or maybe her protection raped her. The oppression is also in that if she disobeys her protection she is punished like a dog who disobeys his master.

If you want to make an argument that women are oppressed here because their pregnancy puts them at a disadvantage, I will say that we should do more to give them paid time away from work after childbirth. I don't think there is any provision for this, although most western countries do have some form of assistance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,915,070 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Woman do not need the protection of a family, we are fully capable of being responsible for our lives. We do not need our fathers or brothers to be our guardians.
But you must remember, Islamic men are cowards....what we call sissies. they cannot trust their own men to treat a woman with respect or consideration. they cannot trust their women to not run away as soon as they get the chance. Muslim men don't escort women for the women's safety or protection. They do it because they, themselves are not strong or confident men. They know their women would leave them if the women had half a chance. The only time they are "strong" is when the woman is being condemned and then they can hide behind the koran and torture and kill the woman. Like bullies everywhere, they hide and wet themselves when confronted with a real man.....or even a strong independent woman.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top