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Old 12-27-2010, 06:48 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
I remember studing in my phsycology class about the difference between Western and Estern people.In the Western world, people are more indivisualism and everybody is on his own.When the man grows up,he can ignore the family and the mother and go his own way;however,in the Eastern world,people are more socializm.They are based on society and everybody has to support the other.And the man has to support the family.The women can do the same,but she doesn't have to if she doesn't want to.

You know very little about democratic societies. Everything you have said in all your posts shows that.
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Old 12-27-2010, 06:58 AM
 
122 posts, read 126,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Here is what I know, not think:

That as a women I can follow my own religion without a man telling me what to do. That to coerce is what you are talking about. That a woman must fear the abandonment of her family and that a husband is the controller of her.

What you talk about is against Islam. There is no compulsion in religion and
the equality of men and woman.

To do otherwise goes against Islam and it even goes against how the prophet treated Kadijah.

You are coming up with these off the wall excuses.

What you are calling oppression is not oppression. Again here is the definition of oppression. You cannot change what the word means because you want to.

Oppression is the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.[1] It can also be defined as an act or instance of oppressing, the state of being oppressed, and the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, and anxiety.

Many children grow up with mothers who work, I did and I am fine. I choose to stay home with my kids but it was a choice I made.
Did I say there is a compilsion of a relegion?Please reread what I wrote.I can see u r trying to prove your point by making things I haven't said.

I said advise and that doesn't mean the same as make.So,can u tell the difference.

And prophet Muhammed treated Khadijah in a good manner and he is the best example for us peice and blessing be upon him.

For the equality,it doesn't go against Islam.They are equal but not the same.


God treats men and women as spiritual equals., Quran 3:195 tells us : "Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

So next time don't make things up to prove your point.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,810 posts, read 19,905,205 times
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you are mixing up things that happen with what is or is not approved of in our society.
A man that does not support his children is not condoned by our society.
If a woman chooses to support herself by prostitution and has made that decision of her own free will, it is not oppression.If you are insinuating that she would not have to do so if her 'man' was taking care of her, you would be correct.
But if she did not want to live with that man in order to get that benefit, it should be her right to decide.
We use a saying by Benjamin Franklin for other purposes usually, but it also fits here.
"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:17 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
Did I say there is a compilsion of a relegion?Please reread what I wrote.I can see u r trying to prove your point by making things I haven't said.

I said advise and that doesn't mean the same as make.So,can u tell the difference.

And prophet Muhammed treated Khadijah in a good manner and he is the best example for us peice and blessing be upon him.

For the equality,it doesn't go against Islam.They are equal but not the same.



God treats men and women as spiritual equals., Quran 3:195 tells us : "Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

So next time don't make things up to prove your point.

You have certainly pointed out a compulsion of religion:

Originally Posted by Muslim22
As far as I can see I think she will be mostly looked at as a bad person who is not following her relegion.She will be ignored from the family mostly because she is not obey God and his will here on earth.I will advise her and do my best to convience her about what she should do.I am responsible for her as a man.

She wears Hijab because it is God will not mine.And Islam solves problems in God's point of view not our point of view.


it is psychological coercion because she stands to lose her family if she does not conform.

You also say it is your job to convince her. Really? That is not equality.

You are accusing me of lying, yet I am not. I am only responding to what you have said.

Yes Muhammad did treat Kadijah in a right manner, but he did not treat her like a child, nor did he keep her under his thumb.

She was his equal. You are not using that as an example if you feel its ok to treat a woman as someone you need to convince of your rightness.

She was his equal and his helpmate and he respected her. What you talk about is not the respect of a woman.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:30 AM
 
122 posts, read 126,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
You have certainly pointed out a compulsion of religion:

Originally Posted by Muslim22
As far as I can see I think she will be mostly looked at as a bad person who is not following her relegion.She will be ignored from the family mostly because she is not obey God and his will here on earth.I will advise her and do my best to convience her about what she should do.I am responsible for her as a man.

She wears Hijab because it is God will not mine.And Islam solves problems in God's point of view not our point of view.

it is psychological coercion because she stands to lose her family if she does not conform.

You also say it is your job to convince her. Really? That is not equality.

You are accusing me of lying, yet I am not. I am only responding to what you have said.

Yes Muhammad did treat Kadijah in a right manner, but he did not treat her like a child, nor did he keep her under his thumb.

She was his equal. You are not using that as an example if you feel its ok to treat a woman as someone you need to convince of your rightness.

She was his equal and his helpmate and he respected her. What you talk about is not the respect of a woman.
I didn't point out there is a compulsion in relegion.Conviencing her is something I do even with my friends to find what is right and what is wrong.If i am wrong,I will change my mind.And if the other person is wrong ,he or she will change their minds because lies can be shown easily and it doesn't stay long;however,the truth never change people might but the truth never.Do u believe there is one creater without any partners who created all of this and responsible in maintaining all of this in life?
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:45 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
Islam allows women to work and have her own business and study.So,I don't think I said anything about that.

Let's talk about the rest
There are societies which correct what is wrong and there is a society which doesn't even care what everybody does which I think mostly Aythiest.

They are equal but they are not the same.When God created women,God made women and men different.They are equal as I mentioned before but not the same.

For example,i think it is sad when I see a woman who is supposed to raise a child and be a woman or work at a nice job,works on the street working as men does.This is oppression.

When they are being used as sex objective,I think this is oppression.When she becomes prostuites on the streets,I think this is oppression.When she lost her identity as a woman,this is oppression.When she has a baby without knowing the father,this is oppression.When she has obortion and kill a baby because it was a mistake I call this oppression.

All of this is totally oppression.Don't u think so ?


I wonder, what do you think is a good example of a Muslim country? Saudi Arabia? Taliban Afghanistan? or do you think of countries like Malaysia or Indonesia?


And what branch of Islam do you follow? Sunni? Shia? Sufism?

Most of the poster's here think of Wahhabism when we think of Islam. What do you think of that movement? Do you follow it?


My apologies if this has already been stated.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:47 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
I didn't point out there is a compulsion in relegion.Conviencing her is something I do even with my friends to find what is right and what is wrong.If i am wrong,I will change my mind.And if the other person is wrong ,he or she will change their minds because lies can be shown easily and it doesn't stay long;however,the truth never change people might but the truth never.Do u believe there is one creater without any partners who created all of this and responsible in maintaining all of this in life?

Coercion comes in many forms. It can be the fear of physical harm, psychological harm.

When someone feels that they will lose something important like family, or one feels like they might face physical trauma then it is oppressive.

Many people have spouses they try to convince of one thing or another but what you are talking about is the correct way of following a religion. Islam is the submission to Allah.

You are talking about convincing because if is a religious duty.

Many Muslim women are killed because they did not submit to the will of their husbands, fathers, brothers because they were being told to do something that their family saw as a religious duty.

Woman are killed for not obeying.

There was a picture on the cover of Time magazine of a girl who had her nose and ears cut off because she ran away from her family because she did not want to be forced into a marriage.

I am not saying all Muslim men are like this. I have Muslims friends and they do not have oppressive relationships. But they live in a country where all have basic rights. Women have basic rights and freedoms.

They choose or choose not to wear hijab, or they choose or choose not to work out of the home. They raise families and live what they consider to be a good islamic life. The difference is they have choices, and protections under the law.

My religious beliefs have no bearing in this conversation.
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Old 12-27-2010, 07:49 AM
 
122 posts, read 126,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I wonder, what do you think is a good example of a Muslim country? Saudi Arabia? Taliban Afghanistan? or do you think of countries like Malaysia or Indonesia?


And what branch of Islam do you follow? Sunni? Shia? Sufism?

Most of the poster's here think of Wahhabism when we think of Islam. What do you think of that movement? Do you follow it?


My apologies if this has already been stated.
Thankx for asking
Islam shows itself not a country shows Islam.I follow two things Quran and Sunna of the prophet Muhammed which has been documented in details.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:00 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,729,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muslim22 View Post
Thankx for asking
Islam shows itself not a country shows Islam.I follow two things Quran and Sunna of the prophet Muhammed which has been documented in details.
Salafi?
And thanks for responding.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:01 AM
 
122 posts, read 126,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Salafi?
And thanks for responding.
Yep.
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