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Old 12-31-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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How does one take such a statement as "Slay them wherever ye find them" out of context? What "context" makes that OK?
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
How does one take such a statement as "Slay them wherever ye find them" out of context? What "context" makes that OK?

no context makes it ok.

Its just one of so many ayats that talk about killing the unbeliever.

It doesn't matter if it is talking about a situation 1400 years ago or now.

It is never ok to kill, period..
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Old 12-31-2010, 09:55 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
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I've never found any text commanding women to wear the hijab.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Originally Posted by minibrings View Post
I hear you but then think about the burkha and the Taliban in Afghanistan. Of women not being allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia and the morality police walking about. Of the lovely Islamic Republic of Iran stoning a woman because she allegedly had an affair, of them hanging 2 gay teenagers who were about 15 years of age.
People always use Afghanistan as an example, and it's probably the worst of the worst, although I wouldn't want to be in Saudi Arabia, either. Or Iran. But do keep in mind that when Saudii Arabia booted out Osama bin Laden, he told them that Afghanistan was the only true Muslim country.

There were people trying to help the women in Afghanistan long before 9/11. Jay Leno's wife was one of them.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
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Originally Posted by JayBrown80 View Post
I am not defending Islam, or any religion. I am saying that you can't compare the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world to a select few nutbags. The taliban, and the governments of Iran and Saudi Arabia are pretty much the poorest examples you can find of Muslims in the modern world. But it's important not to veiw all Muslims as that. I know that most people say "well not all muslims are like that" but I really do think that with Islam, we as Americans DO THINK that they are all gay hating, women beating, neanderthals.

I respect what the Human Rights Watch does, but I dont think it gives a clear picture of what is actually in the hearts and minds of people. If you want to get technical about it, America is a country that advocates detainment without trial and torture. And a good many American citizens not only support that, they get warm feelings in their nether regions from it.

But that is directly opposite of what the American Consitituion calls for and what America is supposed to stand for. And there are many in American who are vehemently opposed to torture. I don't want people in foreign countries lumping me in with Dick Cheney just because we both happen to be American.

The OP was specifically asking about where in the Koran does it say women should wear Burqas. I was just stating that it doesn't, but it's important to remember that the muslims who think women are inferior and are property, are not actually following the Koran.

I was also pointing out that many Muslim countries do have Women as heads of state, and have for quite a long time, a much better track record than you will find in America. The Koran is pretty specific as well saying that women have rights to divorce, to be protected financially, and to be equal in the afterlife. You won't find something like that in the bible. Christianity specfically says that women were made for the enjoyment of men. The Koran states that men and women were made for the enjoyment of each other. I am not saying women were always treated equally, but even in mideval times, Muslim women had a plethora of rights not enjoyed by their Christian counterparts.

Female political leaders in Islam and in Muslim-majority countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Timeline of first women's suffrage in majority-Muslim countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Women in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In reality, those muslim women who are property and forced to wear Burqa's are not the NORM. We could go on for hours at all the injustices in the Muslim world, for there are many. But we could say the same about any religion, government, or country. I don't excuse the behavior, I am just saying it is not indicative of the religion. As with most religions though, people just use it as an excuse to do whatever they were already inclined to do.

If you are they type of person that feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, administers to the sick, then you can do all that under the guise of religion.
If you are they type of person who beats your wife, stones gay people, or blows up buildings, then you can do all that under the guise of religion.

It's not really the religion, it's the people. People filled with hate will always find a "righteous" excuse for violence. You need to focus on the PEOPLE who commit violence, and not the EXCUSE (religion) that they use to explain their violence.


Good point. During the Middle Ages, Christian women had to cover their hair--just take a look at traditional nun's habits, which was the dress of the ordinary peasant women of the time. They were property, to be married off or sent to live in a convent at the whim of whichever male family member was in charge. It took a long time to correct that.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,217 posts, read 54,678,928 times
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Originally Posted by JayBrown80 View Post
Would you say that is true of most religions though?

I mean, Christianity is king in America, yet everyday conservatives say Christians are the most persecuted people in America. I know many Catholic family member that love me and don't care if I am gay, but they remain strangely silent when the Catholic church says gays are aberrant.

I know that the Westboro Baptist Church protested gay funerals for 10 years, and no one batted an eyelash. I wonder where the Christian outrage was then? The whole reason the WBC started protesting soldier funerals is that no one cares if you spit at some grieving mother that has a dead gay son.
It did exist in some Christian churches, and you should know that. The first time I heard of the WBC was when they did their hate thing at the funeral of Mathew Shepard, the young gay man who was murdered in Wyoming and left hanging from a fence to die. The Episcopal Church spoke out strongly and publicly both about the murder and the actions of the "God Hates ****" set. Then again, Episcopalians have ordained gay priests since the 1970's.
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
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I believe women covering their faces was practiced by early Christians in the Holy Land prior to Islams existence
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