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Old 01-07-2011, 12:47 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
how can you consider this forum against freedom of speech , while everyone can criticise and show objections for other beliefs ( as long as it happens politely and with respect ) ?

why someone should to be rude and offensive to feel that he have freedom of speech ?
can any of you answer these questions for me
these questions are based on your defination for freedom of speech which i confirm that i'm against it , so i want actually to redirect the subject to understand your insight for such type of freedom and if it was more beneficial or more harmfull
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,770 posts, read 4,442,494 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
how can you consider this forum against freedom of speech , while everyone can criticise and show objections for other beliefs ( as long as it happens politely and with respect ) ?

why someone should to be rude and offensive to feel that he have freedom of speech ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
can any of you answer these questions for me
these questions are based on your defination for freedom of speech which i confirm that i'm against it , so i want actually to redirect the subject to understand your insight for such type of freedom and if it was more beneficial or more harmfull
Hi elwill,

Let's see if I can simplify this for you.
From this web site: Censorship and Free Speech

free speech The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or restraint by the government.
censorship Censorship is the act of changing a message, including the act of deletion, between the sender and the receiver, without the sender's and receiver's consent and knowledge.

People don't feel they need to be rude and offensive in order to exercise their free speech rights, they just are rude and offensive and we have no laws against that.

For example. I can say that Obama has big ears that look like Dumbo (the elephant) the cartoon character of Walt Disney productions and not be thrown in jail over it.

At the same time, the TV cartoon series, Family Guy, can show Jesus taking a shower and their be sexual connotations of that shower, and even though both what I said and what they show is rude, neither of us are going to jail over it.

But, if I on this public message board that has adopted censorship rules, called you a not so nice name...then my post would be deleted and I would no longer be allowed to participate here, because I failed to recognize you as a human being who can be hurt by name calling.

In the first example if I were in the presence of the president of the U.S. and I said that to him, his reaction would be to judge me as a rude person and a bore to be around. He within his rights would shun me.

The second example of the Family Guy cartoon, I don't watch it (I live with my exhusband and he was flipping through and he paused just long enough that I saw it) I am within my rights able to shun the show. I don't have to watch it. If it was the only show on TV, we wouldn't have a TV set. Further more, I know the writers of Family Guy by my opinion are rude, so therefore, I wouldn't have anything to do with them. However, they can continue publishing their cartoon for the folks that don't care and like the show.

elwill, you live in Egypt and so I know something in my English words got lost to you.

Just know, that I am just as irritated (mad, upset) over the Jesus cartoon, as you are the Mohammad one. Respect is respect, some people have it, others don't. There is no law against those who have no respect for others in this manner here in the states. Just like there is no law that says we must respect rude behavior.

The handling of these situations, is just done (maybe) differently, that's all.

PS: The president might laugh at my comment and say, yes, they are and invite me to stay to dinner. People's reactions, vary as do situations.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 01-07-2011 at 03:44 AM.. Reason: ps
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:49 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,733,198 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
can any of you answer these questions for me
these questions are based on your defination for freedom of speech which i confirm that i'm against it , so i want actually to redirect the subject to understand your insight for such type of freedom and if it was more beneficial or more harmfull
A great speech by Christopher Hitchens who addresses this subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1UJmQfrGXU
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Old 01-07-2011, 04:36 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,509 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by actonbell View Post
Hi elwill,

Let's see if I can simplify this for you.
From this web site: Censorship and Free Speech

free speech The right to express any opinion in public without censorship or restraint by the government.
censorship Censorship is the act of changing a message, including the act of deletion, between the sender and the receiver, without the sender's and receiver's consent and knowledge.

People don't feel they need to be rude and offensive in order to exercise their free speech rights, they just are rude and offensive and we have no laws against that.

For example. I can say that Obama has big ears that look like Dumbo (the elephant) the cartoon character of Walt Disney productions and not be thrown in jail over it.

At the same time, the TV cartoon series, Family Guy, can show Jesus taking a shower and their be sexual connotations of that shower, and even though both what I said and what they show is rude, neither of us are going to jail over it.

But, if I on this public message board that has adopted censorship rules, called you a not so nice name...then my post would be deleted and I would no longer be allowed to participate here, because I failed to recognize you as a human being who can be hurt by name calling.

In the first example if I were in the presence of the president of the U.S. and I said that to him, his reaction would be to judge me as a rude person and a bore to be around. He within his rights would shun me.

The second example of the Family Guy cartoon, I don't watch it (I live with my exhusband and he was flipping through and he paused just long enough that I saw it) I am within my rights able to shun the show. I don't have to watch it. If it was the only show on TV, we wouldn't have a TV set. Further more, I know the writers of Family Guy by my opinion are rude, so therefore, I wouldn't have anything to do with them. However, they can continue publishing their cartoon for the folks that don't care and like the show.

elwill, you live in Egypt and so I know something in my English words got lost to you.

Just know, that I am just as irritated (mad, upset) over the Jesus cartoon, as you are the Mohammad one. Respect is respect, some people have it, others don't. There is no law against those who have no respect for others in this manner here in the states. Just like there is no law that says we must respect rude behavior.

The handling of these situations, is just done (maybe) differently, that's all.

PS: The president might laugh at my comment and say, yes, they are and invite me to stay to dinner. People's reactions, vary as do situations.
thank you actonbell , i got your point and i agree with it

then what do you think , is it better to handle these situations or leave it without controll or without limits and without any considerations for its consequences ?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
 
40,086 posts, read 26,750,404 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
thank you actonbell , i got your point and i agree with it

then what do you think , is it better to handle these situations or leave it without controll or without limits and without any considerations for its consequences ?
The difference between savages and civilized people rests on the way they treat these issues that do not involve physical harm. Savages inflict physical harm in retaliation and impose those physical punishments to deter or restrain them from happening. Civilized people use non-physical sanctions (shunning,avoidance, etc.) to deter or reduce their incidence. These paradigm differences are light-years apart . . . and the savage heart cannot seem to comprehend that.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,770 posts, read 4,442,494 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
thank you actonbell , i got your point and i agree with it

then what do you think , is it better to handle these situations or leave it without controll or without limits and without any considerations for its consequences ?
I always consider the consequences of my actions and the actions of others. But then I know one day I will have to answer to a higher power. He scares me more than people do.

Also, I know I'm not the only one that will answer to that higher power. Even though they say they don't believe in Him, it doesn't matter. So, in that...'vengeance is Mine', sayeth the Lord. So in that I say, 'Lord handle it'. And I live my days on earth, without worry or strife.

Yet, I am human.

I'm a sensitive person and I have to work at, not carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. We are to give our worries over to God and Christ to carry, as Christ carried the weight of the cross, He can also carry, the weight of the world.

I may be angered, likened to Christ the day He angered and over turned the money tables in the church. To that I must go back to, vengeance is not mine in which to deal, but His to do in His time.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:39 PM
 
69 posts, read 83,273 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
OK. Good for them. So where exactly does murdering infidels come into the picture?
America should change its foreign policy as it creates feelings of resentment and vengeance. Many Americans do not know the impact its policies have on people's lives. Look at the situation now in Tunisia. If this was Iran or Sudan or Syria, the West and Clinton would have been everywhere. But because Tunisia is an "ally" no words spoken. This kind of policy where you are willing to go to war to spread democracy and yet remain quite about the friendly dictator is not going anywhere.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:07 AM
 
37 posts, read 51,567 times
Reputation: 45
love that prophet, wht a guy
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Elwill, with regard to rude and obnoxious speech, you asked "what do you think , is it better to handle these situations or leave it without controll or without limits and without any considerations for its consequences"

Most of us Americans think it is better leave it without controll or without limits and without any considerations for its consequences.

We think it is acceptable to make fun of Jesus in our media, draw cartoons of Muhammed wearing a bomb for a hat, or put a Christian cross in a jar of urine and call it "Pizz Christ".
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quranist View Post
America should change its foreign policy as it creates feelings of resentment and vengeance. Many Americans do not know the impact its policies have on people's lives. Look at the situation now in Tunisia. If this was Iran or Sudan or Syria, the West and Clinton would have been everywhere. But because Tunisia is an "ally" no words spoken. This kind of policy where you are willing to go to war to spread democracy and yet remain quite about the friendly dictator is not going anywhere.
Hey Quran, the fact that we are the most powerful country in the history of the world causes many other people to resent us. Don't worry, we are used to it.

Our leaders carry out a foreign policy to provide for the safety and prosperity of the American people. When we don't like what our leaders are doing, we vote them out.
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