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Old 01-14-2011, 05:29 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring View Post
I don't want to sound rude about this, but who cares! I sure don't.
If you are secure in your faith with God and in your religion, why should it matter how many people on Earth share your faith? Do you need the numbers of converts to your religion to be secure that yours is the right faith or do you know in your heart that you are doing the will of God/Allah.

Honestly, if I was the last Christian on Earth, I would still be as committed to my faith as I am now. Nothing would change that. If everyone around me was Muslim, I would not care. If they want to kill me for my religion, so be it, then it really wouldn't matter.

I have Muslim friends and we never discuss what we should believe. If we do talk about religion, we discuss the similarities between the two religions more than anything.

All of this bickering about who's faith is better or who's is growing faster is pointless and childish and only leads to further anger and conflict. This bickering among religions is probably one of the reasons why atheism is actually the fastest growing belief (or non-belief) in the world, which is very sad indeed IMO. We should all be working together to serve as an example for those of no faith through actions of kindness, charity and understanding rather than acting like a bunch of mindless apes.


i agree with you
but i'm sure that squall-lionheart didn't means to proof the truthfull of islam from the number of it's followers , i think it was just statistics to refutate someone's claims ( according to the context of the conversation)
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Northern Ireland
27 posts, read 28,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i think that i responded to your question about hadeeth ( may be in another thread )
we consider sahih muslim and sahaih bokhary are most authentic ahadeeth we have , in the same time it's work of humann , we believe in probability of existence errors within it , so that we have islamic science to study this branch

and i gave you generally the criteria which our prophet gave us , whatever agree with quran we can accept it to be truth , and whatever in in contradiction to quran we consider it fabricated or mistransmitted

is thier any other questions >
I was actually asking Squall-lionheart for his response.

But ok let's quote from the Quran. Verse 4:34 appears to sanction wife-beating, according to most generally accepted translations and intrepretations of the verse.

Verse 5:33 appears to sanction some other nasty stuff against people who fight "Allah".

Murder, cutting off hands etc.. is all sanctioned in the Quran.

How is this peaceful?
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:05 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marz123 View Post
I was actually asking Squall-lionheart for his response.

But ok let's quote from the Quran. Verse 4:34 appears to sanction wife-beating, according to most generally accepted translations and intrepretations of the verse.

Verse 5:33 appears to sanction some other nasty stuff against people who fight "Allah".

Murder, cutting off hands etc.. is all sanctioned in the Quran.

How is this peaceful?
it dosn't appears so for the muslims themselfs
Wife beating is not allowed in Islam in any case!

Is beating women allowed in Islam? Ahmed Ismail

Is wife beating really allowed in Islam?


and just to show you my honesty , this is the harshest openion i found ( in the case if someone interpret it as hit )
why is it allowed to beat your wife in islam?

and this
Wife Beating in Islamic Perspective - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544256 - broken link)
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,124,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
it's the same in my part in the world ( egypt )
i have many christian friends and i never discussed the relegions at all with them , may be just mere questions but not debate
I'm glad to hear that, elwill. I don't know much about Egypt, but I get the impression it is more moderate than other Middle Eastern countries. I don't think Saudia Arabia even allows Christian churches.

I know you have your radicals and there was a Christian church attacked recently but, as I'm sure you know, we certainly have our share of radicals as well. They do not represent most of us.

In other Middle Eastern countries, I get the impression there is conflict between the Sunni and the Shia Muslims, kind of like the conflict between the Protestant and Catholic Christians in Europe that led to so many people being killed.

Do you have the same Sunni - Shia conflicts in Egypt?
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Northern Ireland
27 posts, read 28,950 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
it dosn't appears so for the muslims themselfs
Wife beating is not allowed in Islam in any case!

Is beating women allowed in Islam? Ahmed Ismail

Is wife beating really allowed in Islam?


and just to show you my honesty , this is the harshest openion i found ( in the case if someone interpret it as hit )
why is it allowed to beat your wife in islam?

and this
Wife Beating in Islamic Perspective - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544256 - broken link)
You can say what you want, but that doesn't change the fact that most interpretations by trusted scholars seem to intrepret that the verse sanctions "wife-beating".

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 4:34


Let's talk about Muhammed now. According to Hadith Sahih Muslim 3371, Muhammed allowed his followers to rape their female slaves. Most Muslims believe that Sahih is authentic.

Prove me wrong.

You've posted that Sahih Muslim is one of the most authentic Hadiths, don't forget.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,124,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marz123 View Post
Muhammed allowed his followers to rape their female slaves
So what? Moses let his Jews rape their female captives. See chapter 31 in the Book of Numbers.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Northern Ireland
27 posts, read 28,950 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
So what? Moses let his Jews rape their female captives. See chapter 31 in the Book of Numbers.
But this guy is telling me that Muhammed was a man of peace, I'm telling him some truths about the true nature of Islam and it's prophet.

But yeah, Judaism isn't as peaceful as it seems, just like Islam.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,678 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marz123 View Post
You can say what you want, but that doesn't change the fact that most interpretations by trusted scholars seem to intrepret that the verse sanctions "wife-beating".

Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 4:34


Let's talk about Muhammed now. According to Hadith Sahih Muslim 3371, Muhammed allowed his followers to rape their female slaves. Most Muslims believe that Sahih is authentic.

Prove me wrong.

You've posted that Sahih Muslim is one of the most authentic Hadiths, don't forget.

the hadeeth just gave men the permission to have sexual intercourse with their slave-girl and this did certainly not mean that muslim men could rape their female slaves (female prisoners of war ) , since Allah swt and the prophet (saw) command muslim men to treat their slave girls well and with respect and dignity.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,678 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
I'm glad to hear that, elwill. I don't know much about Egypt, but I get the impression it is more moderate than other Middle Eastern countries. I don't think Saudia Arabia even allows Christian churches.

I know you have your radicals and there was a Christian church attacked recently but, as I'm sure you know, we certainly have our share of radicals as well. They do not represent most of us.

In other Middle Eastern countries, I get the impression there is conflict between the Sunni and the Shia Muslims, kind of like the conflict between the Protestant and Catholic Christians in Europe that led to so many people being killed.

Do you have the same Sunni - Shia conflicts in Egypt?
you can expect conflicts between different groups in unstable countries

we don't have conflicts between sunni and shia in egypt
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,124,956 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
we don't have conflicts between sunni and shia in egypt
Good for Egypt.

From what I read about Iraq, people are setting bombs at Shia gatherings, and they assume Sunnis are doing it.

Why do you think Iraq is having this problem?

Do you think it will gradually settle down?
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