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Old 01-13-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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There is nothing "scientific" about the "miracles of the Quran", or any other so-called miracles. One of the most overused and misused words, 'miracles' only refer to quite uncommon events or legendary ancient happenings.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:50 AM
 
439 posts, read 482,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
"Within ten years" is a rather ambiguous and refutible prophecy, frankly. You seem to miss the point of actual prophecy. Now, if they had prophesied the exact date (also controvertible, but let's continue...), and added the exact reasons and means, then it could qualify as an accurate and fulfilled prophecy.

Let's just say that I and millions of other skeptics require far different levels of documentation and evidence for a supposedly fulfilled prophecy than you do. Fact: neither Christian nor Islamic prophecies have EVER made the grade.

But that's OK: It's a harmless fantasy you harbor. Even if there were some truly useful and modern information there, Islam has stayed well behind the demonstrated technical advancements of Western technology, apparently to ignore this imagined vast and amazing Islamic technological edge, instead deciding to hijack, steal or buy "science" from other sources. And even more oddly, we do not ever see a copy of the Q'Ran in any scientist's technical resource library. Hmmm....

So... you just go ahead believing that somehow allah had an edge on "future-tech" and "scientific miracles", and that Islam has a vast and historical scientific background to grow on.

Good luck with that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
There is nothing "scientific" about the "miracles of the Quran", or any other so-called miracles. One of the most overused and misused words, 'miracles' only refer to quite uncommon events or legendary ancient happenings.


The Qur'an is a book of guidance,

and it is not a book of science
the Quran contains some scientific facts to help you believe that it is from your creator .
then you obey the orders that are in it.
to enter paradise and avoid hell.
here is another scientific fact
"So verily I swear by the hidden stars that move and brooms"
some stars swallow any thing comes near it
black holes.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,372,762 times
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Default Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
scientific miracles..? Kind of an oxymoron isn't it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by salaita1 View Post
My friend
Where is the contradiction?
Exactly, ptsum. Of course, the science toolbox is simply used to confirm or reject an hypothesis. It was only recently developed, in terms of absolute historical chronology. It certainly was not around when the Q'Ran was written. And without it's rigorous and peer-reviewed methodologies, no honest, factual and credible answers can ever be determined, especially if such findings run headlong into religion's ancient determinations.

Once that toolbox has been effectively utilized, the "miraculous" aspects of an observed event usually disappear. No deities or supernatural events have occurred, it turns out; just an explicable natural event.

Example: What you see in the galaxy photograph is all explicable; the result of the collapse of a star. In fact, such pictures, coupled with our modern-day understandings of nuclear and astro-physics, only serve to deny a supernatural presence and interpretation.

If Allah was an early scientist, he would have made clear that the so-called miracles and messages of the day were rather easily explained in terms even the average blunt-headed citizens could understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
The Qur'an is a book of guidance,

and it is not a book of science
the Quran contains some scientific facts to help you believe that it is from your creator .
then you obey the orders that are in it.
to enter paradise and avoid hell.
here is another scientific fact
"So verily I swear by the hidden stars that move and brooms"
some stars swallow any thing comes near it
black holes.
Very nice, but also very ambiguous. I agree; it's only a guide book ,and should not have extra-ordinary meanings attributed to it's vague phrases. For instance, your passage here could clearly apply to eclipses, or to comets disappearing in the shadows, or to seasonal (or even nightly!) visibility of some stars on the horizons. How, for instance, did they account for Jupiter passing behind the moon one night? Miraculous! Praise Allah!

I could no doubt also search the Q'Ran for a lot of phrases that would show it's absolute illiteracy about astrophysics, now couldn't I? Just as you are selectively cherry-picking here, but even so, the best you can come up with are these obviously obtuse and ambiguous phrases. Even the Greek astronomers made drawings and calculations: there are none of those in your Q'ran. Or in the bible, for that matter.

As to your prophetic proof about the Romans, a true prophecy does not simply involve someone's wide-based and obvious political observations about what might likely happen in the perpetually war-bound ME within the next ten years. I can make the same sort of pronouncement:

"Within the next 5 years, in the greater Middle East, there will be much heated turmoil with the ancient tribes, and a terrible reconing."

Which, OF COURSE, obviously, means, that Iran (or perhaps Afghanistan, or Pakistan, or Yemen, or....) will launch an atomic device (it does say "heated" turmoil, after all, or perhaps that also means a "Molotov", or a HEAT round from a tank, or some ANFO, or C4, ... or.... or...).

We'll see. In the meantime, again, your claims of the Q-ran's vast scientific accuracy and knowledge is in no way useful to anyone (no details, no equations, no step-wise methodologies to confirm anything, no accurate records of known astrological events of the day), and the state of modern day scientific accomplishment in the Muslim ME is visibly out of date.

You have not achieved anything technical on your own, which is fine: you have chosen to remain an agrarian-based, technically uneducated, religiously bullied society, with strict boundaries on personal and gender freedoms and brutal punishments for transgressions. So be it. But why blow the loud clarion horn of scientific knowledge if you have nothing to demonstrate? Just to show us the Q'ran is the perfect book?

Sorry: no product, no sale.
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Old 01-16-2011, 03:24 PM
 
439 posts, read 482,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post

Very nice, but also very ambiguous. I agree; it's only a guide book ,and should not have extra-ordinary meanings attributed to it's vague phrases. For instance, your passage here could clearly apply to eclipses, or to comets disappearing in the shadows, or to seasonal (or even nightly!) visibility of some stars on the horizons...... .

the verse has four clues
hidden
stars
move
brooms
the close object is the black hole

more types of facts are in the followng verses
By the sun and his brightness,
And the moon when she followeth him,
And the day when it revealeth him,
And the night when it enshroudeth him,
And the heaven and Him Who built it,
And the earth and Him Who spread it,
And a soul and Him Who perfected it
And inspired it (with conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it.
He is indeed successful who causeth it to grow,
And he is indeed a failure who stunteth it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,332,175 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
the verse has four clues
hidden
stars
move
brooms
the close object is the black hole

more types of facts are in the followng verses
By the sun and his brightness,
And the moon when she followeth him,
And the day when it revealeth him,
And the night when it enshroudeth him,
And the heaven and Him Who built it,
And the earth and Him Who spread it,
And a soul and Him Who perfected it
And inspired it (with conscience of) what is wrong for it and (what is) right for it.
He is indeed successful who causeth it to grow,
And he is indeed a failure who stunteth it.

So just what exactly is this supposed to prove? It's a poem or a verse from some book... it proves nothing..
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,264 times
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From the negative we can prove the positive light of heaven. Whether we MAY do so in the presence of humanity as it is is another thing.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,045,634 times
Reputation: 3984
Do you have information or knowledge about the scientific miracles of the Qur'an?

Well, actually, any allegations of miraculous activity by any religious grouping, I tend to take with a dumptruck load of salt.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,264 times
Reputation: 258
Salt, salt!? A scientific miracle of plausible socialism in America. Good.
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,045,634 times
Reputation: 3984
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
From the negative we can prove the positive light of heaven. Whether we MAY do so in the presence of humanity as it is is another thing.
Hummmmmm, Sophistry spoken here???? Logically, one can not prove the negative, but, the negative needs no proof, particularly since the positive can not prove its' assertion. Of course you MAY try to prove something, the real question is "CAN" you prove?---Doubtful at best.
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Old 01-16-2011, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,372,762 times
Reputation: 3735
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
Salt, salt!? A scientific miracle of plausible socialism in America. Good.


What?

______________________________________

(By the way, as for the clues in finalmessage's poem: in real science, you don't have to search for "clues" as to what a definition or discovery or conclusion means. That would be the antithesis of true accomplished science, to have to guess at the possible answers based on obtuse clues, or to read into and imagine things to find the meanings you want.)

Islam and your Q'Ran both fail as scientific documents; sorry.
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