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Old 04-03-2011, 05:51 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,634 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Very nice, but your link does not address the violence in response to the Quran burning...So far I have not seen any condemnation of these acts by any Muslim organization, but I've seen lots that condemn the act of Terry Jones.

So far my search for this condemnation has turned up nothing...Your fellow peaceful Muslims are eerily quiet.
are you interrested to find condemnation for specific individuals or condemation for the act of violence itself which may be happen any time in any place?

i mean , if muslims condemned the violence against chrisitinas and their proberty in general , so it mean nothing if they didn't name each event and each group around the world ?

i think that poistion of islam according church attaking is very clear

and it isn't my problem that this condemnation has turned up nothing , all the world condemn israil terrorism and it turned up nothing , the world condemned Boush for his war against Iraq and it turned up nothing , you condemned Bin laden and yet it turned up nothing .


i'm interrested as a muslim in one thing , if someone said that his violence is islamic , then as muslim all i can do is to condemns him .
may be if i'm talking as a presedent or as a government hence you can blame me for things turned up nothing

Last edited by elwill; 04-03-2011 at 06:14 AM..
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,858 times
Reputation: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
....for specific individuals or condemation for the act of violence itself which may be happen any time in any place....
but these would have to be famous individuals which do not have to subscribe to the same laws as the ordinary people.

Quote:
i mean , if muslims condemned the violence against chrisitinas and their proberty in general ,
the common culture of the christians is well noted to be condemnable back at the muslims; for the nature that it is not recognized what the real problems in the middle east are. The controversy hasn't hit home that they, the q' uran burners are thoughtlessly failing their cultural responsibilities of this so-called fundamentalist church. Their culture too can be suspect of falling into the materialistic ways of the west itself. Now they think they can absolve themselves.

Quote:
i think that poistion of islam according church attaking is very clear
The position of Islam is inadequately I think protrayed by the U.S. government, but that is my materialistic opinion.

Quote:
and it isn't my problem that this condemnation has turned up nothing , all the world condemn israil terrorism and it turned up nothing , the world condemned Boush for his war against Iraq and it turned up nothing , you condemned Bin laden and yet it turned up nothing .


In America it is the terrorism of materialism. In Libya now I believe it is the doubt that people there know what materialism actually meant to property values. It is the terrorism of the state.


Quote:
i'm interrested as a muslim in one thing , if someone said that his violence is islamic , then as muslim all i can do is to condemns him .
may be if i'm talking as a presedent or as a government hence you can blame me for things turned up nothing
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Old 04-03-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,042 posts, read 4,203,794 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Where is the outrage over the burning of the book? I think we saw it manifested already.
When person A is calling names and encouraging others to dislike or shun person B, the automatic response is to sympathize with Person B.

When Person B pulls out a gun and shoots Person A in the head, all that sympathy goes out the window and Person B gets arrested for murder.

The provocation was a bad thing. The response was a ridiculous overreaction. Does God/Allah value ANY book -- ultimately just paper and ink -- more than a human life??

By the way:


(2001) Taliban dynamites sacred Buddahs at Bamiyan in Afghanistan. Buddhas of Bamiyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ch_21_2001.jpg

YouTube - Buddha - Who Destroyed Buddha?
(2005) Saudi Arabia Desecrates Hundreds of Bibles Annually Saudi Arabia Desecrates Hundreds of Bibles Annually
(2006) Muslim Students Urinate, Spit On Then Burn Bible -- Justify This!: Australia : Muslim Students Urinate, Spit On Then Burn Bible
(2007) Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses -- Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com
(2008) Muslims burn Bible in Pakistan -- Muslims burn Bible in Pakistan | Spero News

And here come all the excuses. "These are not the actions of all Muslims, all of Islam cannot be held accountable for the actions of a few Muslims." And yet the Muslims of Afghanistan and elsewhere are rioting, rampaging and murdering over the actions of a "Christian" who any real Christian will tell you is an extremist and a radical.

The difference is that Buddhists and Christians did not go on rampage, murdering Muslims enmasse every single time that some Muslim burns a Bible, burns a Christian alive, burns a cross, burns an American flag, blows up a holy site, etc.

Would it be acceptable if Christians and Buddhists retaliated just as violently in all future cases where Muslims desecrate things that are sacred to them??

Quote:
Terry Jones sees no problem with having done so...I wonder if he'd be as dismissive if someone burned a Bible in front of him. Or if he would turn violent in response.
Well, the so called Christian, Terry Jones has had plenty of reason to be provoked, as I've already pointed out.

Quote:
If he did, should he be condemned for doing so? Moderator cut: Orphaned
Terry Jones hasn't resorted to violence though. If he did, he would be prosecuted for it.

Moderator cut: Orphaned- inappropriate language -- and that's what we're talking about here: Murder in reaction for mere taunting and insults.

Terry Jones claims that Islam is an evil religion that advocates:
1.) Murder
2.) Rape
3.) Bigotry and intolerance

The Muslim mobs reaction effectively proves him right about items 1 and 3.

Last edited by june 7th; 04-03-2011 at 02:09 PM..
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:49 PM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,616,779 times
Reputation: 1913
Why would Muslims have to condemn everything that someone like them does? What ever happened to the good ol' mantra of personal responsibility? I guess that only applies to anglo-christians in the end.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,400,693 times
Reputation: 10958
When I am provoked, I respond violently. It's kept some people from provoking me, others aren't so intelligent.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,042 posts, read 4,203,794 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
Why would Muslims have to condemn everything that someone like them does? What ever happened to the good ol' mantra of personal responsibility? I guess that only applies to anglo-christians in the end.
You're making it a one-way street there. What we're seeing is angry Muslims all over the place holding completely unrelated persons -- many of them not even Christians -- accountable for the actions of Terry Jones. And they're killing these people because Terry Jones burned a frickin book, called them names and made them angry.

What it comes down to is this: If Muslims are not seriously bothered the MANY violent actions of Muslims worldwide and figure it's no big deal then that's fine. Just accept the label -- Islam is a huge mass of inhuman bloodthirsty psychotic murderous monsters.

If Muslims are willing to accept this label then that's all that needs to be said. Humankind simply needs to understand that Islam is a threat to the lives of everyone everywhere and take steps to stamp it out.

But obviously that's unacceptable to Muslims. Their religion is "a religion of peace" and they're offended by anyone saying differently. Well ... if they are a religion of peace then they have to do a heckuva lot more to convince everyone. Muslim-based violence, terrorism, genocide, massacre and bigotry are too widespread and too commonplace to simply ignore as rare anomolies. The good Muslims of the world have to do more than just say, "I disagree with those things." Islam needs to clean up it's own house. The good Muslims that we're constantly hearing are the vast majority need to root out extremism, not just say that it's wrong. They need to stop giving lip-service sympathizing with the excuses behind all the bad things that the bad Muslims are doing, and just unequivocally condemn the actions of these extremist elements in their religion -- and then do everything they can to wipe out the extremist elements of Islam at every opportunity. But what we hear from the "good Muslims" is always, "I can understand why they would react that way and they have a good point, but I would never resort to such methods." And by saying this, they're opting out of all responsibility to ever actually do anything to clean up the blood-stained reputation of Islam world-wide.

The non-Muslim world has come to accept the Muslims of the world simply cannot be trusted to act like human beings. The Muslims of the world aren't doing anything to change that stigma.
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Old 04-03-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,400,693 times
Reputation: 10958
And I'm sure they'll do it once Christians do the same.

Since I don't have a dog in this race, I'm out.
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Old 04-03-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Yes, it does give the excuse for violence, and I wouldn't condemn anyone who became violent in response to being PROVOKED. I will condemn the person doing the provoking though.

I've also found that violence is a very good solution, through my own life experiences. It only takes one good beating for people to leave you alone as you asked them to.
The only thing I'm curious about, if you actually do use violence to solve your problems is...How much time have you spent in prison? Violence is not only NOT a solution it is against the law.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:10 PM
 
591 posts, read 561,147 times
Reputation: 66
Terry Jones is doing what every Christian should do, and expose Islam for what it is. THe Koran is the most evil and dangerous thing to God that has ever been made. It belongs in the trash bin and should be burned.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:15 PM
 
591 posts, read 561,147 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
You're making it a one-way street there. What we're seeing is angry Muslims all over the place holding completely unrelated persons -- many of them not even Christians -- accountable for the actions of Terry Jones. And they're killing these people because Terry Jones burned a frickin book, called them names and made them angry.

What it comes down to is this: If Muslims are not seriously bothered the MANY violent actions of Muslims worldwide and figure it's no big deal then that's fine. Just accept the label -- Islam is a huge mass of inhuman bloodthirsty psychotic murderous monsters.

If Muslims are willing to accept this label then that's all that needs to be said. Humankind simply needs to understand that Islam is a threat to the lives of everyone everywhere and take steps to stamp it out.

But obviously that's unacceptable to Muslims. Their religion is "a religion of peace" and they're offended by anyone saying differently. Well ... if they are a religion of peace then they have to do a heckuva lot more to convince everyone. Muslim-based violence, terrorism, genocide, massacre and bigotry are too widespread and too commonplace to simply ignore as rare anomolies. The good Muslims of the world have to do more than just say, "I disagree with those things." Islam needs to clean up it's own house. The good Muslims that we're constantly hearing are the vast majority need to root out extremism, not just say that it's wrong. They need to stop giving lip-service sympathizing with the excuses behind all the bad things that the bad Muslims are doing, and just unequivocally condemn the actions of these extremist elements in their religion -- and then do everything they can to wipe out the extremist elements of Islam at every opportunity. But what we hear from the "good Muslims" is always, "I can understand why they would react that way and they have a good point, but I would never resort to such methods." And by saying this, they're opting out of all responsibility to ever actually do anything to clean up the blood-stained reputation of Islam world-wide.

The non-Muslim world has come to accept the Muslims of the world simply cannot be trusted to act like human beings. The Muslims of the world aren't doing anything to change that stigma.

All of Islam covers up for a terrorist. All the "good" moderate Muslims cover up for all the murderous evil that Muhammad commits. THe "good" moderates are the one's who praise and love that pathetic and incredibly evil man. THey are the one's who vote his influence into power. The only way to "clean house" is to rid the world of Islam itself.
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