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Old 06-18-2015, 03:51 PM
 
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my response is the same: those who consistently rely on deception, deflection, dishonesty, slippery semantics
are not reliable or credible sources

i do not trust those who promote and defend hatred and violence as reliable or trustworthy sources for anything. period. full stop.
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Old 06-18-2015, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Isn't that a bit of a contradiction ?

Iranians are not Arab they are Aryans basically the same ancestry as Germans.

How do you reconcile this:

with this:
There is a mixed up here.

The said quote refer to Walid Sheobat
Who is Walid? - Walid Shoebat

Ali Sina is Born and raised in Iran, educated in Italy and Pakistan, and now living in Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Sina_(activist)

I don't think the mixed up is critical when we correct it.
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Old 06-19-2015, 07:53 AM
 
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thank you for correction, continuum
quote was attributed to wrong speaker, that is my error, i apologize

the validity of the quote still stands, now attributed to the correct speaker, thank you
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Old 06-19-2015, 07:58 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,163,628 times
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I think its pretty clear Allah is not enamored of fanatics. Where they live is miserable, their lives are generally insecure, traumatic and unhappy, most of their plots fail because apparently he isn't willing, and the societies they try to run are absolutely awful - with people running away. Somehow, the messages Allah has apparently been sending them that He is not willing are still falling on deaf ears.
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Old 06-19-2015, 02:15 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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According to the Quran, and these words are not mine, this is the message from Allah:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Quran 9:5 & 6 "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

Sadly, there is much more of this in the Islamic Hadiths. This makes me very sad. In the hadiths we read this:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

This is just a small sample.
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Old 06-19-2015, 02:22 PM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,163,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
According to the Quran, and these words are not mine, this is the message from Allah:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem” “for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Quran 9:5 & 6 "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

Sadly, there is much more of this in the Islamic Hadiths. This makes me very sad. In the hadiths we read this:

"O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do coitus interruptus. A soul that which Allah has destined to exist will surely come into existence.” (Bukhari 34:432)

"Then the apostle sent Sa-d b. Zayd al-Ansari, brother of Abdu'l-Ashal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horses and weapons." (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham/Hisham 693)

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:
"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."

"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

This is just a small sample.
Are those verbatim correct? I'm just not familiar enough to know if they are. If not - shame on you.
If so - what an awful ideology. There's no way that can be the correct religion.
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Old 06-19-2015, 02:45 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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I gave the chapter and verse so you can look them up.

Translations may differ slightly, but the meaning remains the same. Notice that if you hear the words of Allah (convert) then you will be spared.

I really suggest reading the Quran and hadiths.

Be aware of abrogation, which means earlier, more peaceful verses in the Quran were abrogated, wiped out, by the later verses like you see above. Also, the Quran is not in chronological order.

Here is the site most Muslims have sent me to....

The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

You can look up the verses there, and even start reading the Quran. If you see anything different from what I posted, please post it here.
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Old 06-19-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,582,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
According to the Quran, and these words are not mine, this is the message from Allah:

Qur’an 22:19-22 “fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem”

“for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods”
Still verbatim but a correction. The above contain two separate quotes and the earlier is part of 9:5 from Yusuf Ali,

Yusuf Ali 9:5 "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 362,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
And this is an example of a brutal man who does nothing peaceful?

Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi | Asia | DW.DE | 06.10.2011

When looking at Muslims, please try to understand we are all individuals and are not punched out as cookie cutter replicas of each other. Islam is all about personal responsibility and not the teachings of some teachers. We alone are responsible for our actions. We each are fully accountable for what we believe and do and we do not have the option of claiming we "were misled by a teacher" It is our own obligation to question all things and to personaly find reason to believe what we believe or do not believe.
You are right about that, I imagine the Islam extremists like Isis would find reasons to spread hate whether or not they followed Islam.

Why follow the Prophets words who took children to bed? I know it happens outside of Islam, but no one follows pedophiles words. Genital mutilation on both girls and boys is wrong, and the Qu'ran seems to hold women as second class citizens. You see so it's hard for me to not criticize a religion that doesn't look at men & women as equals. As an Atheist I don't find much to like about any religion, but Islam needs a reformation. Like Ayaan Hirsi Ali says we need a Jihad of peace not war. The fanatics need to understand that they can't have a world only made up as Muslims, it just isn't going to happen. As people become more educated the more atheism grows, you just can't explain away the facts on evolution.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 362,458 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
I gave the chapter and verse so you can look them up.

Translations may differ slightly, but the meaning remains the same. Notice that if you hear the words of Allah (convert) then you will be spared.

I really suggest reading the Quran and hadiths.

Be aware of abrogation, which means earlier, more peaceful verses in the Quran were abrogated, wiped out, by the later verses like you see above. Also, the Quran is not in chronological order.

Here is the site most Muslims have sent me to....

The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

You can look up the verses there, and even start reading the Quran. If you see anything different from what I posted, please post it here.
Googling the Qu'ran that is the link I have found and am reading. I'm on chapter 7, and there seems to be a lot of contradiction. You copied some of the verses that talks about what to do to disbelievers, so when people come along and say no where does it say in the Qu'ran to convert, make war on and kill non-believers I have laugh.
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