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Old 06-22-2015, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
Googling the Qu'ran that is the link I have found and am reading. I'm on chapter 7, and there seems to be a lot of contradiction. You copied some of the verses that talks about what to do to disbelievers, so when people come along and say no where does it say in the Qu'ran to convert, make war on and kill non-believers I have laugh.
For Non Muslims I suggest they read commentaries by Muslim scholars befor arriving at any conclusions about the Qur'an.

Many people seem to be under the impression the Qur'an is a list of commands, which is very far from understanding the Qur'an

Maududi's introduction to ayyat 7 can help understand it. That can be read here:

Syed Maududi's Commentary for Surah #7
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 363,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
And this is an example of a brutal man who does nothing peaceful?

Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan: The Muslim Gandhi | Asia | DW.DE | 06.10.2011

When looking at Muslims, please try to understand we are all individuals and are not punched out as cookie cutter replicas of each other. Islam is all about personal responsibility and not the teachings of some teachers. We alone are responsible for our actions. We each are fully accountable for what we believe and do and we do not have the option of claiming we "were misled by a teacher" It is our own obligation to question all things and to personaly find reason to believe what we believe or do not believe.

I read about this man, he sounds like a good person. It's too bad he wasn't around now. Isis and other extremists, in all religions could stand to learn from him.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
I read about this man, he sounds like a good person. It's too bad he wasn't around now. Isis and other extremists, in all religions could stand to learn from him.

Actually their are Comparable Muslims in today's world. But they seldom get any media attention

One example:

Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence : NPR


One that is some what known in the UK is:

Fatwa issued against suicide bombing - Telegraph

He is also noted for his lectures calling all Muslims to Peace

Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri Archives | Videos ARY QTV

Sadly today's mindset seems to dwell upon demonizing Islam. The Media has been very compliant with fostering that goal.

Even in the relative safety of Islamic forums Muslims will find many haters of Islam doing their best to demonize the Qur'an and Islam.

Any person acknowledging online, they are Muslim, will soon find them self under a barrage of anti-Islamic rhetoric
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 363,182 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually their are Comparable Muslims in today's world. But they seldom get any media attention

One example:

Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence : NPR


One that is some what known in the UK is:

Fatwa issued against suicide bombing - Telegraph

He is also noted for his lectures calling all Muslims to Peace

Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri Archives | Videos ARY QTV

Sadly today's mindset seems to dwell upon demonizing Islam. The Media has been very compliant with fostering that goal.

Even in the relative safety of Islamic forums Muslims will find many haters of Islam doing their best to demonize the Qur'an and Islam.

Any person acknowledging online, they are Muslim, will soon find them self under a barrage of anti-Islamic rhetoric
I do understand, as a Native American we get little attention on the violence against us. Those that come to the reservation to murder and rape. So it's the opposite for us, either too much attention, IE radical Islam, or too little on Native Americans, both do damage to the innocent.

It doesn't help Islam that the extremists are Muslims, and that they are doing so much damage. Burning, beheading, kidnapping a mass number of girls to rape and forced marriage.

So how can more people like you speak out, make your voices heard? Is it even possible when the news organizations like CNN concentrate on the violent of Isis and Al Qaeda,Ansar al-Sharia, Al Nursa, and Boko Haram just to name a few. I think that more voices like Ayaan need to be heard, and that Islam does need a reformation. Women need to be treated equally, no forced marriages, no genital mutilation on both genders, and what Ayaan pointed out was immigrants segregating themselves from the rest of society. She said in Holland because of the social handouts and money, and letting them have their own schools is just perpetuating the cycle. They finally decided to list the number of "honor" killings, and in less then a year, in only 2 districts 11 girls/women were murdered.

Not just in Holland, but in all democratic societies they need help for a little while, but they need to not depend on welfare. Of course this just isn't about Muslims, but all immigrants. They need proper schooling, and it should be a school where there is a mixture of races and different beliefs. Shown there is a way that doesn't require staying in a situation of domestic violence, and poverty.

I'm not sure Frances way of forcing girls to go without veils is the right way, but I do understand, with Isis being the front and center in the news, why people fear Islam. When they have taken over many cities in Iraq and the mass number of people from all countries go to join, that the idea of Sharia law & Islam taking over the world scare those ignorant of they way most Muslims are

I grew up raised around different races, religions and was taught not to judge anyone's differences. I'm far from perfect, but I thought if I am going to learn more tolerance towards Islam then I needed to meet, educate myself on more then just the daily news about Isis. I was hesitant of coming over to this forum, but I know I needed another views. Thank you for giving one to me.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
I do understand, as a Native American we get little attention on the violence against us. Those that come to the reservation to murder and rape. So it's the opposite for us, either too much attention, IE radical Islam, or too little on Native Americans, both do damage to the innocent.

It doesn't help Islam that the extremists are Muslims, and that they are doing so much damage. Burning, beheading, kidnapping a mass number of girls to rape and forced marriage.

So how can more people like you speak out, make your voices heard? Is it even possible when the news organizations like CNN concentrate on the violent of Isis and Al Qaeda,Ansar al-Sharia, Al Nursa, and Boko Haram just to name a few. I think that more voices like Ayaan need to be heard, and that Islam does need a reformation. Women need to be treated equally, no forced marriages, no genital mutilation on both genders, and what Ayaan pointed out was immigrants segregating themselves from the rest of society. She said in Holland because of the social handouts and money, and letting them have their own schools is just perpetuating the cycle. They finally decided to list the number of "honor" killings, and in less then a year, in only 2 districts 11 girls/women were murdered.

Not just in Holland, but in all democratic societies they need help for a little while, but they need to not depend on welfare. Of course this just isn't about Muslims, but all immigrants. They need proper schooling, and it should be a school where there is a mixture of races and different beliefs. Shown there is a way that doesn't require staying in a situation of domestic violence, and poverty.

I'm not sure Frances way of forcing girls to go without veils is the right way, but I do understand, with Isis being the front and center in the news, why people fear Islam. When they have taken over many cities in Iraq and the mass number of people from all countries go to join, that the idea of Sharia law & Islam taking over the world scare those ignorant of they way most Muslims are

I grew up raised around different races, religions and was taught not to judge anyone's differences. I'm far from perfect, but I thought if I am going to learn more tolerance towards Islam then I needed to meet, educate myself on more then just the daily news about Isis. I was hesitant of coming over to this forum, but I know I needed another views. Thank you for giving one to me.
Hau Koda

We get a double whammy when we are among the Wasicu. My wife Is Cheyenne and for that reason we tend to keep mostly among the Lakotah. The first nation people have a very good understanding of Judging individuals and not a group.
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Old 06-26-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 363,182 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Hau Koda

We get a double whammy when we are among the Wasicu. My wife Is Cheyenne and for that reason we tend to keep mostly among the Lakotah. The first nation people have a very good understanding of Judging individuals and not a group.
Han Koda,

I bet you do! I get questioned a lot from wasicu about my blood quatum. No one from any other race would be so presumptuous to question my heritage. I'm mixed blood, and proud of it, but I get darn tired of know it alls.

mitakuye oyasin
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Old 06-26-2015, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
Han Koda,

I bet you do! I get questioned a lot from wasicu about my blood quatum. No one from any other race would be so presumptuous to question my heritage. I'm mixed blood, and proud of it, but I get darn tired of know it alls.

mitakuye oyasin
True-- we are all one people. (mitakuye oyasin) good words to understand. I used to cross the Lake oahi bridge almost daily always felt comfort when reading those words on the Rez sign. Even though I am not Lakotah, I always feel at home on Cheyenne River
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Old 06-26-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
166 posts, read 363,182 times
Reputation: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True-- we are all one people. (mitakuye oyasin) good words to understand. I used to cross the Lake oahi bridge almost daily always felt comfort when reading those words on the Rez sign. Even though I am not Lakotah, I always feel at home on Cheyenne River
If we all thought about this phrase, and not spent so much time pointing out our differences it would be a better world. It would be a boring world if we were all the same. Even though you and I disagree on some things I think we would be friends. I don't come to the Islam forum to try and convert anyone, but to better understand my fellow human beings.
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,305,624 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masika View Post
If we all thought about this phrase, and not spent so much time pointing out our differences it would be a better world. It would be a boring world if we were all the same. Even though you and I disagree on some things I think we would be friends. I don't come to the Islam forum to try and convert anyone, but to better understand my fellow human beings.
Like wise the inrent of this forum is not to convert anyone.

The purpose is simply to help people understand what Islam is.

I have no problem with people who disagree, I just hope all people base their disagreements upon fact and not upon steretypes or what the media and others portray.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:34 AM
 
226 posts, read 123,857 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Actually their are Comparable Muslims in today's world. But they seldom get any media attention

One example:

Prominent Muslim Sheik Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence : NPR


One that is some what known in the UK is:

Fatwa issued against suicide bombing - Telegraph
Saudi Arabia will condemn terrorism. They are still part of the terrorism problem as they spread fundie Islam around the world, which is a breeding ground for terrorism.

There was a Muslim on here not long ago--if I remember correctly--that was against "terrorism". But they actually supported the Islamist terror group Hamas, and also supported waging aggressive jihad against unbelievers if a proper caliph is in place. (although at least they were honest enough to admit that jihad is really like that.)

Mere condemnations of "terrorism" don't necessarily mean that much.


Quote:
Sadly today's mindset seems to dwell upon demonizing Islam.
Islam has killed and enslaved millions of people historically. The Muslim world--as far I can see--has done next to nothing to face up to the crimes of its religion.

Traditional Islam is indeed "demonic" i.e. extremely evil with massive blood on its hands.

Quote:
The Media has been very compliant with fostering that goal.
We must be watching different media. I normally see the media defending Islam. They hardly ever allow critical voices to speak.

Quote:
Even in the relative safety of Islamic forums Muslims will find many haters of Islam doing their best to demonize the Qur'an and Islam.
As I just mentioned: Traditional Islam is indeed "demonic" i.e. extremely evil with massive blood on its hands.

There is nothing wrong with "demonizing" Islam if it really is evil.
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