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Old 05-17-2011, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,349 times
Reputation: 50

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hi,


Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context


There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.


"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:


"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).


Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):


"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."




(Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?) By: Christine Huda Dodge:

all the Source : Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,202,065 times
Reputation: 3039
I am not Muslim and I can't claim expertise on the matter by something interesting that I've noticed. Muhammed claims to have received revelations from God and shortly thereafter heads to his home town -- Mecca -- and starts preaching. The teachings of Muhammed at this point were very peaceful and accepting of other Judeo-Christian religions. Muhammed was rejected in Mecca and he and his followers were driven out. They regrouped in Medina where Muhammed was met with widespread acceptance. This is where, in my opinion, the tone of his message changes. Muhammed gathers his followers into an army and conquers Mecca, forcing the new religion on them. From that point going forward, Muhammed seems to be increasingly less peace-oriented in the tone of his message.

Before turning conquerer, "There is no compulsion in the religion of Islam." After turning conquerer, "Kill the infidels wherever you find them." "If any man changes his religion (stops being a Muslim), kill him." And so on. This leaves a whole host of seemingly contradictory statements by Muhammed.
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:07 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,165,271 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
hi,


Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context


There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.


"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:


"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).


Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):


"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."




(Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?) By: Christine Huda Dodge:

all the Source : Islam - Verses of Qur'an That Condone "Killing the Infidel"?
So what? Religious books are filled with the ignorant yammerings of primitive mankind. These are the things for which folks could be put to death in the old testament:

Old Testament Death Penalty Sins
There are forty-two death-penalty sins in the Old Testament:

Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.

Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.

Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex. 2:15,19.

Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.

Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.

Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.

Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.

Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.

Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.

Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.

Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.

Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.

Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.

Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.

Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.

Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in

uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.

Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.

Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.

Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.

Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.

Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.

Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.

Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.

Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.

Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.

Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.

Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.

Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.

Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.

Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.

Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.

Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.

Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.

Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.

Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.

False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.

Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.

Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.

Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.

Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.

Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.

False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

Last edited by Melvin.George; 05-18-2011 at 06:17 AM..
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
I am not Muslim and I can't claim expertise on the matter by something interesting that I've noticed. Muhammed claims to have received revelations from God and shortly thereafter heads to his home town -- Mecca -- and starts preaching. The teachings of Muhammed at this point were very peaceful and accepting of other Judeo-Christian religions. Muhammed was rejected in Mecca and he and his followers were driven out. They regrouped in Medina where Muhammed was met with widespread acceptance. This is where, in my opinion, the tone of his message changes. Muhammed gathers his followers into an army and conquers Mecca, forcing the new religion on them. From that point going forward, Muhammed seems to be increasingly less peace-oriented in the tone of his message.

Before turning conquerer, "There is no compulsion in the religion of Islam." After turning conquerer, "Kill the infidels wherever you find them." "If any man changes his religion (stops being a Muslim), kill him." And so on. This leaves a whole host of seemingly contradictory statements by Muhammed.
The Conquest of Mecca was actually quite peaceful. The dominant clan in Mecca was the Quraysh which is also the Tribe Muhammad was from He was of the Banu Hashim clan of the Quraysh. this was basically a family feud, but it settled very quickly and a treaty was signed among the various Quraysh clans with no blood shed. Although later there were battles with the other tribes and some fierce battles erupted with them. there were virtually no Jews or Christians in Mecca at the time Muhammad returned. It was predominately pagan.For the next 10 years the early Muslims lived in Peace with their pagan relatives. But eventually the entire Quraysh tribe accepted Islam eliminating Paganism in Mecca.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:43 PM
 
40,083 posts, read 26,744,474 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The Conquest of Mecca was actually quite peaceful. The dominant clan in Mecca was the Quraysh which is also the Tribe Muhammad was from He was of the Banu Hashim clan of the Quraysh. this was basically a family feud, but it settled very quickly and a treaty was signed among the various Quraysh clans with no blood shed. Although later there were battles with the other tribes and some fierce battles erupted with them. there were virtually no Jews or Christians in Mecca at the time Muhammad returned. It was predominately pagan.For the next 10 years the early Muslims lived in Peace with their pagan relatives. But eventually the entire Quraysh tribe accepted Islam eliminating Paganism in Mecca.
This is the moderate revisionist version of the beginnings of Islam, I assume. Originally the term "Moslem" (Mawzlem) referred to an "evil and unjust oppressive traitor." Only after much time, bloodshed and conquering did it morph into "Muslim" . . . or "one who submits to Allah."
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