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Old 10-06-2016, 08:08 AM
 
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allah said:'Prohibited for you are carrion, blood, the flesh of swine, and animals dedicated to other than God; also the flesh of animals strangled, killed violently, killed by a fall, gored to death, mangled by wild animals-except what you rescue, and animals sacrificed on altars; and the practice of drawing lots. For it is immoral. Today, those who disbelieve have despaired of your religion, so do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My favor upon you, and have approved Islam as a religion for you. But whoever is compelled by hunger, with no intent of wrongdoing-God is Forgiving and Merciful.'
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:35 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,864,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It seems you are missing part of each of those 3 ayyats. I will highlight the parts you might not see

Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye LOVE Allah, follow me; Allah will LOVE you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 3:31

They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such time and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah LOVEth those who turn unto Him, and LOVEth those who have a care for cleanness. - 2:222

Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah LOVEth the beneficent. - 2:195
Two things are clear from this back and forth with mahasn sawresho.

One, english is either a second language or he is using a bad translation program. Or more precisely, he does not appear to understand english grammar, so even though his english would be technically understandable, it comes across as mostly nonsense.

Two, he is right about most of what does make sense. You do appear to be brainwashed.

Gogo just demonstrated something from this passage. No actual reason is given besides "because it is immoral". Not only that, one walks away with the impression that if you did eat pork the person writing has no idea that any actual punishment will befall you. Do this because i say so, but gawd will forgive you. Uh huh.

Kosher diet is based on cleanliness. It holds up today, you dont consume an excess of blood (contains pathogens), nor pork (trichinosis), nor fruits with bugs on them, nor animals that come into contact with dirt, nor thing cooked in their mothers milk (risk of cross contamination), etc. The kosher law was about being ritually pure. Halal is a copycat with no sense as to why it happened. " Because its wrong" just doesnt cut it.

Oh, and the nijab, hijab thing? Plagiarized too. A passage on christian modesty for women. Again, borrowed with little or no real reason of its own and taken to an extreme. I would not be wrong if i said there are no original moral lessons from the quran.

Since my tablet is not letting me copypaste links, kindly type "quran and plagiarism" in at a search engine. Particularly the video.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 10-07-2016 at 11:48 PM..
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Old 10-08-2016, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Two things are clear from this back and forth with mahasn sawresho.

One, english is either a second language or he is using a bad translation program. Or more precisely, he does not appear to understand english grammar, so even though his english would be technically understandable, it comes across as mostly nonsense.

Two, he is right about most of what does make sense. You do appear to be brainwashed.

Gogo just demonstrated something from this passage. No actual reason is given besides "because it is immoral". Not only that, one walks away with the impression that if you did eat pork the person writing has no idea that any actual punishment will befall you. Do this because i say so, but gawd will forgive you. Uh huh.

Kosher diet is based on cleanliness. It holds up today, you dont consume an excess of blood (contains pathogens), nor pork (trichinosis), nor fruits with bugs on them, nor animals that come into contact with dirt, nor thing cooked in their mothers milk (risk of cross contamination), etc. The kosher law was about being ritually pure. Halal is a copycat with no sense as to why it happened. " Because its wrong" just doesnt cut it.

Oh, and the nijab, hijab thing? Plagiarized too. A passage on christian modesty for women. Again, borrowed with little or no real reason of its own and taken to an extreme. I would not be wrong if i said there are no original moral lessons from the quran.

Since my tablet is not letting me copypaste links, kindly type "quran and plagiarism" in at a search engine. Particularly the video.
We do not believe the Qur'an was a new revelation nor that Islam is a new religion. That which was true in the paste continues to be true such as the dietary laws that were revealed to the Jews. You might call it plagiarism or copy cat we see it as acknowledging that What was revealed to all the Prophets was true and nothing new was given to Muhammad(saws).

The Jews, Sabeeans, and Christians that adhered to what had been revealed to them were Submitting to God(swt) the Arabic word for that is Islam. Islam is not the name of a religion. If a person is actually performing Islam they are doing what had been reveled to the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians. A person can not perform Islam without obedience to the past Prophets(pbut) including but not limited to: Adam, Moses. Abraham, Salomon, David, Jesus (PBUT)

Yes there is a lot in the Qur'an that appears in the Tanakh and the Bible. The Qur'an is not a new revelation, it is a final warning for us to not mess up what was revealed in the past like we have done in the past. That includes the Dietary and modesty commands
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:50 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Two things are clear from this back and forth with mahasn sawresho.

One, english is either a second language or he is using a bad translation program. Or more precisely, he does not appear to understand english grammar, so even though his english would be technically understandable, it comes across as mostly nonsense.

Two, he is right about most of what does make sense. You do appear to be brainwashed.

Gogo just demonstrated something from this passage. No actual reason is given besides "because it is immoral". Not only that, one walks away with the impression that if you did eat pork the person writing has no idea that any actual punishment will befall you. Do this because i say so, but gawd will forgive you. Uh huh.

Kosher diet is based on cleanliness. It holds up today, you dont consume an excess of blood (contains pathogens), nor pork (trichinosis), nor fruits with bugs on them, nor animals that come into contact with dirt, nor thing cooked in their mothers milk (risk of cross contamination), etc. The kosher law was about being ritually pure. Halal is a copycat with no sense as to why it happened. " Because its wrong" just doesnt cut it.

Oh, and the nijab, hijab thing? Plagiarized too. A passage on christian modesty for women. Again, borrowed with little or no real reason of its own and taken to an extreme. I would not be wrong if i said there are no original moral lessons from the quran.

Since my tablet is not letting me copypaste links, kindly type "quran and plagiarism" in at a search engine. Particularly the video.
While you are at it, why not add this to it.

"Islam borrowed the belief in monotheism from Adam, Noah, Abraham, and ALL the prophets before Muhammad (sa)"

As Woodrow stated, the message of Islam is nothing new. One God who has sent all prophets with the SAME message - MONOTHEISM.

And lol hahahaha. Seriouly, how ignorant of you when you justified prohibition of pork in kosher laws BECAUSE OF TRICHINOSIS.

Unless you do want to be a laughing stock, please provide a 3000 years old quote from Torah where Jews asked as to why are they prohibited from eating pork? And in reply, Moses and God said to Jews not to eat pork because of "trichinosis".

Please also name that scientist from the ancient world, 3000 years ago, who actually discovered "trichinosis". We may need to update modern day science books to correct the record.

Currently the credit seems to wrongly given to two men by the names of Sir Richard Owen and Sir James Paget in 1835.
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Old 10-09-2016, 04:58 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
While you are at it, why not add this to it.

"Islam borrowed the belief in monotheism from Adam, Noah, Abraham, and ALL the prophets before Muhammad (sa)"

As Woodrow stated, the message of Islam is nothing new. One God who has sent all prophets with the SAME message - MONOTHEISM.

And lol hahahaha. Seriouly, how ignorant of you when you justified prohibition of pork in kosher laws BECAUSE OF TRICHINOSIS.

Unless you do want to be a laughing stock, please provide a 3000 years old quote from Torah where Jews asked as to why are they prohibited from eating pork? And in reply, Moses and God said to Jews not to eat pork because of "trichinosis".

Please also name that scientist from the ancient world, 3000 years ago, who actually discovered "trichinosis". We may need to update modern day science books to correct the record.

Currently the credit seems to wrongly given to two men by the names of Sir Richard Owen and Sir James Paget in 1835.
Mohammed stole from the Torah
And then she claimed she fell to him from heaven
And Jibreel came
For this reason, it is not considered a prophet Mohammad
In its simplest form
Scientific Secretariat
Is that indicate the sources of your information
When you move information from someone else refers to him
But Muhammad deny it relates to Judaism
And this is a big liar
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:06 PM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
Mohammed stole from the Torah
And then she claimed she fell to him from heaven
And Jibreel came
For this reason, it is not considered a prophet Mohammad
In its simplest form
Scientific Secretariat
Is that indicate the sources of your information
When you move information from someone else refers to him
But Muhammad deny it relates to Judaism
And this is a big liar
OK, what do you belive in? Torah or Bible?
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:16 PM
 
2,050 posts, read 660,682 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
OK, what do you belive in? Torah or Bible?
I believe in them
Christ is a Jew and this fact
Christ knows the Torah
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:30 AM
 
4,409 posts, read 1,639,451 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahasn sawresho View Post
I believe in them
Christ is a Jew and this fact
Christ knows the Torah
So you are Jewish or Zionist?
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:04 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,864,431 times
Reputation: 991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
We do not believe the Qur'an was a new revelation nor that Islam is a new religion. That which was true in the paste continues to be true such as the dietary laws that were revealed to the Jews. You might call it plagiarism or copy cat we see it as acknowledging that What was revealed to all the Prophets was true and nothing new was given to Muhammad(saws).

The Jews, Sabeeans, and Christians that adhered to what had been revealed to them were Submitting to God(swt) the Arabic word for that is Islam. Islam is not the name of a religion. If a person is actually performing Islam they are doing what had been reveled to the Jews, Sabeeans and Christians. A person can not perform Islam without obedience to the past Prophets(pbut) including but not limited to: Adam, Moses. Abraham, Salomon, David, Jesus (PBUT)

Yes there is a lot in the Qur'an that appears in the Tanakh and the Bible. The Qur'an is not a new revelation, it is a final warning for us to not mess up what was revealed in the past like we have done in the past. That includes the Dietary and modesty commands
Nice try.

However, the thing is "final warning" or what? Or you'll brutally kill all of us? Or "Allah" will do so?

The Quran continues to be a crappy plagiarism (it isn't respectful, because it in many cases even manages to butcher the copy, as in Trinity including Mary) at best. And at worse, it usually doesn't even claim credit, but behaves as if it came up with some new teaching.

The Bible, on the other hand, makes it clear there is no final warning. That Jesus forgives, and will continue to forgive, because we are loved. Whether you eat pork or even tripe. The Revelation of John is not even a final warning. It is a warning that some false prophets will come. That the Antichrist will come. The one who is against love, and into judging random people.

Should we be on the lookout for a demon-like person?

Misconceptions About Antichrist

No! "But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God." The Antichrist is not one person, but a sick system.

But we believe in Jesus, you say. We have him in our Holy Book.

Quote:
A Tree and its Fruit
(Matthew 12:33-37; Luke 6:43-45)
15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20So then, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
And also this.

Quote:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
If you believe in Jesus, you believe in love of your fellow man. Even if they don't follow your beliefs. If you believe in a "final warning" and punish those who do not share your beliefs with pain our death, you do not believe in Jesus. Jesus is love and forgiveness, goodwill to others.

Yours is a largely copied work that has little original to offer the world. Not any final warning which is not needed in the first place. On its own, this is perfectly fine, but once we get into smug arrogance about it being a perfect infallible text, and that anyone who doesn't accept it as such is a heathen, this goes from learning to love the other religions in the world as they are to declaring everyone who doesn't agree with you a heathen.

There are good Muslims. But Mohammad was not one of them. He was a false prophet.
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:22 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,864,431 times
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(Urgh, I wanted to add something to this but the window of edit passed while I was writing. Stupid hour limit)

You may ask a few things in response to this:

1. You say all of this, but aren't you being just as judgemental?
2. What does all of this have to do with pork?

---------------------------

1. No. If Muslims can learn to live in peace with other cultures and stop the "Only Allah is right, all other religions are heretics" kick, there is no issue at all. Jesus taught two concepts, the principle of karma and the principle of forgiveness. Contrary to the belief of outsiders to this notion, karma is not a moral law. As in, "if you do this, punishment will happen to you." It's a cause and effect. In his Golden Rule "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," he is not saying do this, or something will happen to you. Whatever you do to others has a nasty tendency of recoiling back on you. If you were to beat me up, I would be within rights to do the same. But it is more than that. When you die, what you wish on others tends to recoil back on you. This is because you are actively creating the world you live in by the way you treat others. If left alone, Muslims would not enter Paradise by the way they treat others. The other law is forgiveness. Essentially, all of us have the potential, not by our merits (which strictly speaking, we are as willing to condemn ourselves to punishment as other people) but by the belief in us from other people. We have someone to vouch for us, even given we are liars or murderers or angry people. Atonement was originally only done by burning various animals. But we don't need to do that anymore.
2. Why this discussion when it's about pork? Because these laws are copied without regard to why they are important, or even if they are now obsolete. Let me explain. Jewish law had 10 commandments, right? Well, those commandments had 612 or so subsets, many of which were complicated or unclear. They were also oppressive. Nobody could follow all of those laws to the letter, except for Pharisees that had time to study them. Did Jesus speak about how admirable the Pharisees were? No, the opposite. He talked about how they "devoured the fortunes of widows." He talked about how they turned a place of sacrifices into "den of thieves" with all the mandated animal offerings to buy. He talked repeatedly about the Sabbath and how it actually created more issues than it fixed. Jesus didn't come to abolish the law and the prophets but to fulfill them, he says. What does this mean? Well, these rules were based on law and atonement. But he offered a sacrifice such then no other would ever be needed. We don't need to do that anymore. These laws have been fulfilled, the New Testament or covenant is to love others. That's it. Forgive others, and you also are forgiven. Love others, and nobody has any need to harm you, nor will you come to harm. Here's what it says about those still following the old law, or worse, trying to force it on others.

Quote:
10All who rely on works of the Law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The Law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The one who does these things will live by them.”e
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us so that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
You follow a law at least as oppressive as the 612 statutes of the OT. And since it was copied, you don't even understand why it's wrong. It's wrong because the law was never meant to be followed. It was meant to give way to a truer way of life. It was meant as a guideline while you learned to follow a better way.

Eat pork. Drink. Do whatever. Just stop pushing your morals onto other people. You aren't perfect, and these don't work for everyone.
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