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Old 06-01-2011, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Ptsum is Tsalagi (Cherokee), the same blood my second wife was. The Traditional Tsalagi beleive system has the same love of nature, the concept of being caretakers of the land and a very strong moral code that is similar to Islam. Although they are not as similar to us as the traditional religion of the Lakota. I have very high respect for all of the Native American Religions, because they all uphold the meaning of land is not for sale.
I know.... Like I said I am personal friends with him and we have talked about religion more then once on the phone.....

there are not to many similarities........

 
Old 06-02-2011, 12:16 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
Reputation: 2610
One would have to consider why, if the Israelis have right on their side, they have had so many UN Resolutions against them telling them to withdraw from Palestine. The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined. Just a thought.

Odd isn't it that Israel has broken more UN resolutions that any other country in UN history yet there has been no military move by the West against them. Saddam breaks one or two UN Resolutions and we are in there throwing missiles like there is no tomorrow.

Oh well, that's politics for ya.
 
Old 06-02-2011, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,198,304 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
One would have to consider why, if the Israelis have right on their side, they have had so many UN Resolutions against them telling them to withdraw from Palestine. The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined. Just a thought.

Odd isn't it that Israel has broken more UN resolutions that any other country in UN history yet there has been no military move by the West against them. Saddam breaks one or two UN Resolutions and we are in there throwing missiles like there is no tomorrow.

Oh well, that's politics for ya.
In terms of playing policeman and actually enforcing anything, the UN has been a completely useless organization since the Korean War. It's not going to suddenly become useful anytime soon. And even the police action in the Korean War would have been yet another pointless resolution without one critical element: US and Western European forces. Western Europe has guilt issues with the Jews. Most of Western Europe was only too happy to help Hitler try to eradicate the Jews. Most knew which way the wind was blowing and that the Jews weren't being rounded up and sent to a tropical resort. The refugee problem that became the nation of Israel only happened because they tried to massacre them. So Western Europe isn't going to step in and actually enforce any UN resolution. And the USA has no intention of stepping in. So all the UN has accomplished has been the senseless slaughter of trees to make paper on which to print their utterly useless resolutions.

I have no clue why there have not been far, far more resolutions condemning human rights violations against Christians, Atheists, Buddhists and other non-Muslims in Muslim nations. I simply don't understand why a blind eye has been turned to rampant and terrible human rights violations.
 
Old 06-02-2011, 05:04 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
One would have to consider why, if the Israelis have right on their side, they have had so many UN Resolutions against them telling them to withdraw from Palestine. The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined. Just a thought.

Odd isn't it that Israel has broken more UN resolutions that any other country in UN history yet there has been no military move by the West against them. Saddam breaks one or two UN Resolutions and we are in there throwing missiles like there is no tomorrow.

Oh well, that's politics for ya.
To bad the UN doesn't spend as much time on all the other countries that have committed real abuses against humanity.

But little tiny Israel that has been at war and not because she wanted to be at war but because the Arab neighbors attacked her and the Palestinians have continued the incitement and lets not forget about Hamas and their terrorism. Hamas is sending countless rockets into Israel.

Israel and Palestine would be living in peace if she had not been pulled into war after war..

We were in Iraq not because of what Saddam did but because Bush Jr. wanted to finish what his father didn't, and Iraq has oil. Saddam was a monster.

The Iraqis are better off without Saddam.

Israel is a democracy in the middle east and the only one.

There are many other countries with horrific human rights violations and many of these leaders we help put into power and supported. We have supported these non democratic dictatorships because they had what we wanted.

But little Israel somehow deserves our wrath....
 
Old 06-02-2011, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
In terms of playing policeman and actually enforcing anything, the UN has been a completely useless organization since the Korean War.
Wasn't the point I was making. Never mind!
 
Old 06-02-2011, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
TBut little tiny Israel that has been at war and not because she wanted to be at war but because the Arab neighbors attacked her......
There have been attacks on both sides. In 1967 it was Israel that attacked first.Who attacked who is gone. The point most critics of Israel are making is that the war in which Israel took Arab lands is over...it's time to get out of Palestine. Regardless of who started what, Israel has no right being there. Would you think it acceptable if the USA/UK made Iraq part of the USA/UK? Do you really think that it's acceptable that a conquering nation has the right to hold onto the territory it conquers. It may have been acceptable thousands of years ago...but not today.

Quote:
Hamas is sending countless rockets into Israel.
So would you be if someone was illegally occupying your homeland and treating you like an animal.

Quote:
Israel and Palestine would be living in peace if she had not been pulled into war after war..
So you want to invade territories and then demand that you be left in peace huh?

Quote:
Saddam was a monster.
Yeah...and there are lot of other monsters around the world that are far worse than him that we don't seem to have any interest in.

Quote:
The Iraqis are better off without Saddam.
Let them be the judge of that.

Quote:
There are many other countries with horrific human rights violations and many of these leaders we help put into power and supported. We have supported these non democratic dictatorships because they had what we wanted.
Wouldn't disagree with that but as I said...that's politics for ya!

Quote:
But little Israel somehow deserves our wrath....
Tyranny anywhere deserves our wrath...and that includes Israel.

Last edited by Rafius; 06-02-2011 at 06:02 AM..
 
Old 06-02-2011, 05:55 AM
 
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Rafius wrote:


There have been attacks on both sides. In 1967 it was Israel that attacked first.Who attacked who is gone. The point most critics of Israel are making is that the war in which Israel took Arab lands is over...it's time to get out of Palestine.

As far as I am concerned as long as there is incitement and rockets from Hamas and suicide bombers Israel is still at war.

So would you be if someone was illegally occupying your homeland and treating you like an animal.

Do Palestinians want peace? Then why in 1948 did they not take peace. All of the middle east was carved up by outside powers. The Palestinian territory was a territory. It was split into 2 parts a Jewish part and a Muslim part. There would have been a 2 state solution in 1948 if they had wanted a state but they said no and went to war. The war continues to this day via Hamas.

Yeah...and there are lot of other monsters around the world that are far worse than him that we don't seem to have any interest in.

True, in fact many of those monsters we (USA) helped put in power. So maybe instead of going after a little tiny democracy we ought to be thinking about those with absolutely horrible human rights abuses. Right now many of those are massacring their own populations to stay in power. Israel is not massacring the palestinians.

Let them be the judge of that.

Yes I am sure history and the Iraqis will look back and be glad Saddam was taken out.

Tyranny anywhere deserves our wrath...and that includes Israel.

Yes it does and if Israel was not constantly under threat from Hamas and Palestinian terrorists I would absolutely agree with you. And if I saw the same effort being put into bringing down the tyranny coming out of other countries I would agree with you. But I don't I see a tiny democracy who has had to fight since day one for her very existence and the big countries with horrible dictatorships being supported by other countries because they have something the world wants being left alone.

I really believe that when Israel is no longer under rocket fire and can feel secure then there will be peace and there will be withdrawal from the west bank. Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago and now it is run by Hamas and she is under bigger threat from rocket fire. Given that senario is she supposed to believe if she withdraws from the West Bank the same thing won't happen? Now Fatah and Hamas are working out a deal to reunite and is Israel supposed to see that as a good thing?

Hamas is sworn to the absolute destruction of Israel.

Last edited by Jazzymom; 06-02-2011 at 06:17 AM..
 
Old 06-02-2011, 09:12 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,790 posts, read 10,705,766 times
Reputation: 2515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
There have been attacks on both sides. In 1967 it was Israel that attacked first.Who attacked who is gone. The point most critics of Israel are making is that the war in which Israel took Arab lands is over...it's time to get out of Palestine. Regardless of who started what, Israel has no right being there. .
Where? The land that Israel had before 1967 was part of the old British Palestine Mandate, and is usually called "Palestine" by even moderate Palestinians. Hamas and other radicals do not accept the right of Israel to exist AT all, since to them Tel Aviv and Haifa are also "occupied Palestine"

If you mean get out of the West Bank, most Israelis want to get out of most of the West Bank. The problems now are defining minor boundary adjustments to protect israels security and other issues to make sure a withdrawl is followed by real peace. certainly its very hard for israel to reach a consensus to take risks by withdrawing from further territory, when they are not assured that this wont lead to further attacks on what remains of Israel.
 
Old 06-02-2011, 09:13 AM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
One would have to consider why, if the Israelis have right on their side, they have had so many UN Resolutions against them telling them to withdraw from Palestine. The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined. Just a thought.
You've got to be kidding! The anti-Jewish bias in the UN is endemic. It has nothing to do with what is right since they ignore the CONSTANT attacks on Israel.
 
Old 06-02-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,790 posts, read 10,705,766 times
Reputation: 2515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
One would have to consider why, if the Israelis have right on their side, they have had so many UN Resolutions against them telling them to withdraw from Palestine. The U.N. has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined. Just a thought.
Many muslim states and third world states will vote for any anti-israel resolution. Winning a vote in the General Assembly is no proof of being right.
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