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Old 06-02-2011, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,367,457 times
Reputation: 3735

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Yes I freely admit that I do support illegally occupied people... so ...

Fart SoundBoard to ya.
Very funny, Rafi! A real intellectual find, if I do say so: these "auditory comments" address so much, in such an effective way, that I may have to incorporate them into literally every one of my future posts. Should I ever decide to resume that is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Pean View Post
As long as Muhammad is teaching hatred towards Jews and Christians, there will always be problems with the middle east.
...or, said more succinctly, by removing "the improbable": "there will always be problems with the middle east."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueffenhardt View Post
I don't think so, as Muslims and Jews do get long pretty well living side by side in other parts of the world like New York and Canada, so I think they could do it there, too.

I think they get along in New York and Canada because both groups prosper and neither is oppressing or attacking the other. I really think a political solution could take care of it. If all prosper, people can and will avoid bombing each other.
Agreed. Once freed of the social constricts and socio-economic burdens always present in the greater ME, as well as the shrill, hate-filled and inciteful barkings of the street-corner and mosque Muslim shills, your average US or Canadian newly-landed citizen finds there's lots more to life than endless, mindless hatred and revenge! As practiced, BTW, by both the Israelis and the Muslims. But the Israelis do it with our tax money, which bugs the heck out of me. ('course, the Muslims do it with profits from their mega-sales of oil to us, so....)

As soon as we can break free of our utter mindless dependency on ME oil, and when we also stop selectively funding up Israel, and then leave both sides to their own devices, the sooner this will resolve itself. They'll probably quickly then blow themselves up, but if we can distance ourselves enough, essentially, so what?

Why? Well, because they are apparently incapable of mature, peaceful interaction, and enough is enough!

 
Old 06-02-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,749 posts, read 7,955,764 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Most of the Jews did not want to go to the mideast. Many thought it was just going from one concentration camp to another.They felt they had no ties to the area. Most spoke Yiddish, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, German, English or a combination of them...


Are you saying that European Jews were *forced* to move to Israel?
 
Old 06-02-2011, 08:22 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,423,649 times
Reputation: 807
[quote=Woodrow LI;19419434]Most of the Jews did not want to go to the mideast. Many thought it was just going from one concentration camp to another.They felt they had no ties to the area. Most spoke Yiddish, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, German, English or a combination of them.

Hog wash... Jews have always wanted to return to Eretz Israel. The land of Israel. We have dreamed since the last exile to return...

I find it funny that you speak of giving them NY, other have said what about Uganda or somewhere in South America.

So its ok to displace others just not Palestinians??

Surely Uganda is not empty and we all know South America is not empty and NY surely is not empty..

So we can displace them? Anywhere but Palestine I guess...

Now they all speak Hebrew and yes they wanted to return to the land..
 
Old 06-02-2011, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,197,528 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Most of the Jews did not want to go to the mideast. Many thought it was just going from one concentration camp to another.They felt they had no ties to the area. Most spoke Yiddish, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian, German, English or a combination of them.
Hog wash... Jews have always wanted to return to Eretz Israel. The land of Israel. We have dreamed since the last exile to return...

I find it funny that you speak of giving them NY, other have said what about Uganda or somewhere in South America.

So its ok to displace others just not Palestinians??

Surely Uganda is not empty and we all know South America is not empty and NY surely is not empty..

So we can displace them? Anywhere but Palestine I guess...

Now they all speak Hebrew and yes they wanted to return to the land..
That pretty well nails it down perfectly. The people of Europe had just tried to wipe out all Jews. The thing that was unbelievably clear -- the Jews couldn't trust in the benevolence of the rulers of the nations they were scattered among. The Jews paid a terrible price for their trust - and it certainly wasn't the first time. Clearly they needed to have a land of their own.

Thus far, all Jews/Israelis killed in the entire existence of the nation of Israel does not come anywhere close to equaling the Auschwitz concentration camp. And that's only one of the Nazi's death camps. Thusfar the Jews are safer in Israel than they would be anywhere else.

Last edited by godofthunder9010; 06-02-2011 at 11:22 PM..
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:45 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,316,864 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
..unless you're Native South African, you have no right to be in South Africa. Disagree? Well, that's exactly the position you're taking with Israel. I can see taking your point of view seriously when you lead the campaign to move all whites in South Africa back to Europe -- because they have no right to be there.
Not comparable

SA whites during apartheid assigned homelands where the folk supposedly ruled themselves but were not allowed an army, much like Israel is today with the Palestinians.

Since 1994, all live in peace under one constitution and the homelands are disbanded. Difference is the black folk now rule as they are the majority and for no other reason.

There is still racial crimes but they are fading.

What you still have in Israel today in the SA pre 1994 days. The jews will need to compromise and find a way to live in peace.

In SA, the whites commanded a very efficient army etc. much like Israel who btw were the then SA allies supplying us weapons we could not get from the world direct like mirages for our air force. We could have used this overwhelmingly superior advantage but in the end there would be only unnecessary bloodshed.

It takes a leader of merit to seek peace with a weaker neighbor. When the neighbor is denied access to munitions etc, the revert to guerrilla tactics as is the case in the ME.

A state where all are included is what is necessary and once the power of those who would use terror is removed, peace is possible.

As I understand it, the Jews would lose the majority is such a scenario but it is inevitably where it will end up. You folk lived in relative peace with your neighbors pre 1948 so why is it not possible today?

Both sides would probably have to find a new name for a united Palestine.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 02:29 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,197,528 times
Reputation: 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Not comparable

SA whites during apartheid assigned homelands where the folk supposedly ruled themselves but were not allowed an army, much like Israel is today with the Palestinians.

Since 1994, all live in peace under one constitution and the homelands are disbanded. Difference is the black folk now rule as they are the majority and for no other reason.

There is still racial crimes but they are fading.

What you still have in Israel today in the SA pre 1994 days. The jews will need to compromise and find a way to live in peace.
But what the Palestinians are demanding is not a united Israel/Palestine nation. They're demanding that Israel cease to exist and all Israelis leave. And with the memory of the Holocaust haunting them, Israelis are not going to settle for a single nation solution where they are the minority. Being the minority is what got them massacred time and time and time again.

So yes my comparison it is an extremely similar scenario. The Palestinians want to Israelis gone. So it's the same thing as any white South African being asked to leave and go back to Europe ... except that the Israelis would have a choice between moving back in with the nations that tried very hard to eradicate them completely (Europe) or going to the USA. And most Israelis these days were born in Israel so you're not asking them to go back to where they came from. They already are where they came from.

Quote:
It takes a leader of merit to seek peace with a weaker neighbor. When the neighbor is denied access to munitions etc, the revert to guerrilla tactics as is the case in the ME.

A state where all are included is what is necessary and once the power of those who would use terror is removed, peace is possible.

As I understand it, the Jews would lose the majority is such a scenario but it is inevitably where it will end up. You folk lived in relative peace with your neighbors pre 1948 so why is it not possible today?

Both sides would probably have to find a new name for a united Palestine.
Israel keeps offering peace proposals and the Palestinians terrorists immediately escalate attacks as soon as a proposal looks like it might actually work. Why? Because they can't accept any peace that does not send all Israelis packing.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 05:12 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,423,649 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
That pretty well nails it down perfectly. The people of Europe had just tried to wipe out all Jews. The thing that was unbelievably clear -- the Jews couldn't trust in the benevolence of the rulers of the nations they were scattered among. The Jews paid a terrible price for their trust - and it certainly wasn't the first time. Clearly they needed to have a land of their own.

Thus far, all Jews/Israelis killed in the entire existence of the nation of Israel does not come anywhere close to equaling the Auschwitz concentration camp. And that's only one of the Nazi's death camps. Thusfar the Jews are safer in Israel than they would be anywhere else.

And that nails it down... Never again will we as a people allow others to determine our destiny. Never again will we walk to the slaughter.... Never again will we be weak..

After WW2 Jews could not go back to Europe, we were not welcome and those that did often were killed. Jews lived in refugee camps while trying to locate family and a country to take them.

All that is needed is a tiny bit of land which was to be shared. 2 states living side by side but no, the Arabs and Palestinians can't accept that. Time after time we have been almost at peace and the Palestinians walked away.

So Israel is a fact on the ground and that will not change. Every Jew understands what the loss is if there is no Israel...

Every Jew clearly understands what the world and people are capable of and so now we fight for that land and our survival.

We can never trust our survival on others....
 
Old 06-03-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
And that nails it down... Never again will we as a people allow others to determine our destiny. Never again will we walk to the slaughter.... Never again will we be weak..

After WW2 Jews could not go back to Europe, we were not welcome and those that did often were killed. Jews lived in refugee camps while trying to locate family and a country to take them.

All that is needed is a tiny bit of land which was to be shared. 2 states living side by side but no, the Arabs and Palestinians can't accept that. Time after time we have been almost at peace and the Palestinians walked away.

So Israel is a fact on the ground and that will not change. Every Jew understands what the loss is if there is no Israel...

Every Jew clearly understands what the world and people are capable of and so now we fight for that land and our survival.

We can never trust our survival on others....
I do not dispute what you say. But the fact is as of 2006 there were still more Jews living in the USA then in Israel. Slightly less then 1/3 of the world's Jews live in Israel. If one could call the Jewish nation as being the Nation with the largest number of Jews that would make the USA the Jewish Nation, not Israel.

My opion is based on statistics taken from HERE
 
Old 06-03-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
8,749 posts, read 7,955,764 times
Reputation: 3732
Yes, but Jews only account for ~2% of the population of the USA. They account for ~75% of the population of Israel.

That doesn't even take into account that they don't view the USA as their ancestral homeland....
 
Old 06-03-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,272,269 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Yes, but Jews only account for ~2% of the population of the USA. They account for ~75% of the population of Israel.

That doesn't even take into account that they don't view the USA as their ancestral homeland....
The 66% of the world's Jews who do not live in Israel, don't seem to see Israel as their ancestral homeland. the only Jews I personally know who considered Israel to be their Ancestral Homeland were the Jews I knew in Morocco. Virtually every Jew I know in the USA claim Russia, Poland or Germany as their homeland. But they do not want to either.

OOOps take that back the Jews I knew in Austin Texas were from Israel but immigrated to Austin. Austin has a fair size population of Jews who were born in Israel and left. They are orthodox and their families were in Palestine prior to 1947
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