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Old 06-03-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
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"A study published by the National Academy of Sciences stated that "The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population..."

Taken from: Jewish ethnic divisions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above what I meant by ancestral homeland. I'm willing to bet there are Jews all over the world that feel a "connection" to Israel, even though they weren't born there or may have never even visited.

Jazzymom certainly appears to feel the connection, but I have no idea if she's lived there/visited there/etc.

 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:01 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,423,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The 66% of the world's Jews who do not live in Israel, don't seem to see Israel as their ancestral homeland. the only Jews I personally know who considered Israel to be their Ancestral Homeland were the Jews I knew in Morocco. Virtually every Jew I know in the USA claim Russia, Poland or Germany as their homeland. But they do not want to either.

OOOps take that back the Jews I knew in Austin Texas were from Israel but immigrated to Austin. Austin has a fair size population of Jews who were born in Israel and left. They are orthodox and their families were in Palestine prior to 1947
so glad you are an expert on Jews. Jews live all over the world and not just in Israel. Many people who were born in other countries move abroad. The same is for Israelis.

Most people Jew and non Jew see where they came from as the land there ancestors immigrated from. My ancestors are Dutch, German, and British. I am an American whose ancestors came from those countries. I am a Jew and Israel is the ancient homeland of the Jews and the modern state of Israel.

I would never go to Germany, Britain or The Netherlands. Those are part of my families past.

My israeli friend told me once that all Israelis would like to see all Jews come home but that there is not enough room in Israel for all the Jews of the world to go there.

Everyone of my Jewish friends see Israel as the homeland of the Jews and the only place in the world that Jews can be safe and that we Jews need to support Israel.

I really don't get your reasoning at all...
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:02 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,423,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
"A study published by the National Academy of Sciences stated that "The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population..."

Taken from: Jewish ethnic divisions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above what I meant by ancestral homeland. I'm willing to bet there are Jews all over the world that feel a "connection" to Israel, even though they weren't born there or may have never even visited.

Jazzymom certainly appears to feel the connection, but I have no idea if she's lived there/visited there/etc.
I have never lived there, one day I will go there but for now I wait till that day. I will send my children when they are old enough through a birthright program.

I feel the connection to that place and to my people.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The 66% of the world's Jews who do not live in Israel, don't seem to see Israel as their ancestral homeland. the only Jews I personally know who considered Israel to be their Ancestral Homeland were the Jews I knew in Morocco. Virtually every Jew I know in the USA claim Russia, Poland or Germany as their homeland. But they do not want to either.
My great grandparents all lived in eastern europe.

When they lived in eastern europe, they prayed to return to israel. They celebrated the beginning of the rainy season in september, and its end in April, though the seasons in eastern europe dont work like that (those in Israel do) They prayed in Hebrew, the language that originated in Israel, and read about the kings of Israel.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,056 posts, read 30,517,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
I really don't get your reasoning at all...
Perhaps because he wasn't presenting reason, but rather, justification for an already-established viewpoint.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:15 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
I have never lived there, one day I will go there but for now I wait till that day. I will send my children when they are old enough through a birthright program.

I feel the connection to that place and to my people.
Nativ is WAY better than birthright.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,197,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I do not dispute what you say. But the fact is as of 2006 there were still more Jews living in the USA then in Israel. Slightly less then 1/3 of the world's Jews live in Israel. If one could call the Jewish nation as being the Nation with the largest number of Jews that would make the USA the Jewish Nation, not Israel.

My opion is based on statistics taken from HERE
This got me curious previously and I did some digging around for numbers on things for something unrelated. According to the numbers found here: There are more Jews in the nation of Israel than in any other country on earth.
Number of Jews by Nation:
1 Israel 5,703,700 42.5%
2 United States 5,275,000 39.3%
3 France 483,500 3.6%
4 Canada 375,000 2.8%
5 United Kingdom 292,000 2.2%
6 Russia 205,000 1.5%
7 Argentina 182,300 1.4%

Now I'm not sure why the numbers don't seem to match up but there it is.

As the Jewish population continues to grow, another popular statistic may stop being true: "There are more Palestinians in Israel/Palestine than there are Jews." There are 7.4 million Palestinians there currently. Doesn't really matter, but it's at least interesting to look at the numbers.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I do not dispute what you say. But the fact is as of 2006 there were still more Jews living in the USA then in Israel. Slightly less then 1/3 of the world's Jews live in Israel. If one could call the Jewish nation as being the Nation with the largest number of Jews that would make the USA the Jewish Nation, not Israel.

My opion is based on statistics taken from HERE

their estimate for the US jewish population is on the high side. Thats contested - the US census doesnt count by religion. There are community studies by jewish communities in different cities, and there are nationwide surveys done every 5 years or so. The number in the Wiki looks like its the one based on the community studies - which tend to run higher. There are all kinds of issues with double counting college students, folks who have moved, or who have a winter home in florida.

Anyway, its undisputed that the US number is stable or declining, while the Israeli number is increasing. So Israel will soon have more Jews than the USA, if it does not already.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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why the numbers dont match

“The article on the Jewish Population in the U.S. shows a greater number of Jews in the U.S. than in Israel, while the World Report will claim the opposite,” says Sheskin. The difference is in the methodology. “While the World Report uses national studies for its estimate, the U.S. Report sums up estimates of the Jewish population in over 1,000 local Jewish communities to develop a national estimate,” says Sheskin, who is also director of the Jewish Demography Project at the Sue and Leonard Miller Center for Contemporary Judaic Studies at UM.
 
Old 06-03-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,789 posts, read 10,703,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Not comparable

SA whites during apartheid assigned homelands where the folk supposedly ruled themselves but were not allowed an army, much like Israel is today with the Palestinians.

Since 1994, all live in peace under one constitution and the homelands are disbanded. Difference is the black folk now rule as they are the majority and for no other reason.

There is still racial crimes but they are fading.

What you still have in Israel today in the SA pre 1994 days. The jews will need to compromise and find a way to live in peace.
.
er, no.

First Israel Arabs vote and are full citizens of Israel. The distinction is not based on race or ethnicity or religion but on the fact that West bank arabs are not residents of Israel and have never been. (the distinction is eroded by Israeli settlers who move the west bank and retain their voting rights in Israel - thats a problem - its not the same as SA though)

Second, the PA is not a bantustan. Its ruled by members of Fatah, the old antiIsrael guerilla/terrorist group. Imagine if Kwazulu had been run by the ANC.

The boundaried for the PA suggested by Olmert would make it a viable state, with territorial contiguity - again, not like a bantustan.

The PA has a security force that IS an army in all but name. They dont have heavy weaponry though.

The afrikaners came to SA for land and opportunity, and ALWAYS used nonwhite labor. the Jews came to Israel to recreate their nation, and develop an autonomous society.

The Jews will compromise. They will agree to the formation of a Palestinians state in the west bank and gaza. They will NOT give up a Jewish State in Israel.
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