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Old 06-05-2011, 09:50 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

I do thank you for understanding I do try to see things from all perspectives. But, I do think very similar to my Brother squall-lionheart , we just have different ways of presenting our views. We both desire to defend Islam and remove the misconceptions. We are First Muslim, but we are also individual humans with our own opinions as to the best way to present the truth about Islam.

I do see the possibility for Peaceful coexistence among the 4 Judeo-Christian religions (Everybody keeps forgetting the Sabians). It will take dialogue, understanding and getting politics out of religion.
Many of his opinions are dead wrong and very anti semitic....

 
Old 06-05-2011, 05:19 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I do admit that abuses were done, especially in regards to the sacred sites of other faiths. This is actually in violation of Islam as we are forbidden even in warfare to destroy the sacred sites of other faiths or to harm the religious leaders.
Typical. Are we going to believe what we see all over the world or are we going to believe what Woodrow tells us? Guess which? Allah's command to deceive infidels to aid the spread of Islam does not aid your quest to convince us to believe you either, Woodrow.
Quote:
But, I do think very similar to my Brother squall-lionheart , we just have different ways of presenting our views. We both desire to defend Islam and remove the misconceptions. We are First Muslim, but we are also individual humans with our own opinions as to the best way to present the truth about Islam.
If only there were some other truth about Islam than the one that we so clearly see in the heinous actions of Muslims and those states that embrace Islam as a deen (all-encompassing theocratic government). We believe our eyes not our ears. Woodrow.
Quote:
I do see the possibility for Peaceful coexistence among the 4 Judeo-Christian religions (Everybody keeps forgetting the Sabians). It will take dialogue, understanding and getting politics out of religion.
Islam wants politics out of religion . . . BUT by replacing politics WITH Islam. When you know what they mean when they spout these phrases Westerners routinely use . . . their deceit becomes ever more obvious. A further example . . . the Islamic definition of peace is when ALL are in submission to Allah . . . whether by dhimmitude or death. (There are no more "peaceful" people than the dead). By the way . . . squall-lionheart is definitely anti-Jew and proud of it, Woodrow . . . so be careful who you associate your attitudes with . . . you could blow your peaceful, moderate and accommodating cover.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Typical. Are we going to believe what we see all over the world or are we going to believe what Woodrow tells us? Guess which?
I always urge everybody to verify all things they see or hear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Allah's command to deceive infidels to aid the spread of Islam does not aid your quest to convince us to believe you either, Woodrow.
Can you find anyplace in the Qur'an where that is written? I can't

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
If only there were some other truth about Islam than the one that we so clearly see in the heinous actions of Muslims and those states that embrace Islam as a deen (all-encompassing theocratic government). We believe our eyes not our ears. Woodrow.
Are you seeing Cultural actions or Islam? The most Islamic of nations is Indonesia. The Indonesians are among the most Peaceful of People.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Islam wants politics out of religion . . . BUT by replacing politics WITH Islam. When you know what they mean when they spout these phrases Westerners routinely use . . . their deceit becomes ever more obvious. A further example . . . the Islamic definition of peace is when ALL are in submission to Allah . . . whether by dhimmitude or death. (There are no more "peaceful" people than the dead). By the way
Here you are correct. Yes, it is true we do want all people to submit by Allaah(swt), but a person will never submit by force. True submission can only come from free choice to do so. to me my submission to Allaah(swt) means that I believe in one God(swt) with no beginning or end. I will do my best to avoid that which is forbidden and strive to do my best to do good and be charitable. As part of my submission I begin all actions and words as a Prayer, and try to have all things I do or think to be worthy of praising and ot Thaning Allaah(swt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
. . . squall-lionheart is definitely anti-Jew and proud of it, Woodrow . . . so be careful who you associate your attitudes with . . . you could blow your peaceful, moderate and accommodating cover.
I also am "anti" Judaism. But I do separate being opposed to a person's beliefs from the person. Although I may dislike what a person believes or does, that does not mean I will try to prevent them from believing what they believe, mistreat them or even dislike them without reason.
These are difficult ideas to express on a forum, without it coming across as hatred of the person or people. Even more difficult if you are trying to do so in a language other than your native language.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 08:11 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19460858]




Here you are correct. Yes, it is true we do want all people to submit by Allaah(swt), but a person will never submit by force. True submission can only come from free choice to do so. to me my submission to Allaah(swt) means that I believe in one God(swt) with no beginning or end. I will do my best to avoid that which is forbidden and strive to do my best to do good and be charitable. As part of my submission I begin all actions and words as a Prayer, and try to have all things I do or think to be worthy of praising and ot Thaning Allaah(swt)

That is what is wrong with Islam... To want people to submit and to be slaves...

Why can't you and all other Muslims just live your faith and leave others alone to have theirs??

I will never understand and with your comments I have no interest anymore..

You have convinced me that I am correct in disliking Islam...




I also am "anti" Judaism. But I do separate being opposed to a person's beliefs from the person. Although I may dislike what a person believes or does, that does not mean I will try to prevent them from believing what they believe, mistreat them or even dislike them without reason.
These are difficult ideas to express on a forum, without it coming across as hatred of the person or people. Even more difficult if you are trying to do so in a language other than your native language.

I dislike Islam and with your comment that only intensifies my feelings about Islam.

Anti Judaism..... Anti Semite....

You only add to the belief that muslims hate Jews...
 
Old 06-05-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
[quote=Jazzymom;19461074]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post




Here you are correct. Yes, it is true we do want all people to submit by Allaah(swt), but a person will never submit by force. True submission can only come from free choice to do so. to me my submission to Allaah(swt) means that I believe in one God(swt) with no beginning or end. I will do my best to avoid that which is forbidden and strive to do my best to do good and be charitable. As part of my submission I begin all actions and words as a Prayer, and try to have all things I do or think to be worthy of praising and ot Thaning Allaah(swt)

That is what is wrong with Islam... To want people to submit and to be slaves...

Why can't you and all other Muslims just live your faith and leave others alone to have theirs??

I will never understand and with your comments I have no interest anymore..

You have convinced me that I am correct in disliking Islam...




I also am "anti" Judaism. But I do separate being opposed to a person's beliefs from the person. Although I may dislike what a person believes or does, that does not mean I will try to prevent them from believing what they believe, mistreat them or even dislike them without reason.
These are difficult ideas to express on a forum, without it coming across as hatred of the person or people. Even more difficult if you are trying to do so in a language other than your native language.

I dislike Islam and with your comment that only intensifies my feelings about Islam.

Anti Judaism..... Anti Semite....

You only add to the belief that muslims hate Jews...
You do know that the Arabs are also Semitic people. For a Muslim to be anti-Semitic would mean he would have to be against all of the known Prophets(PBUT). For any Muslim to be anti-Semitic is self defeating.

To be anti-Judaism does not equate to being anti-Jewish people. Jews are a people and like all people they come in a multitude of personalities. Some very nice, some very obnoxious the same as it is with all people. No one person represents any group of people.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,875 posts, read 31,754,043 times
Reputation: 12622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
I do admit that abuses were done, especially in regards to the sacred sites of other faiths. This is actually in violation of Islam as we are forbidden even in warfare to destroy the sacred sites of other faiths or to harm the religious leaders.
Then why do you do it? Here is a long list of sacred sites destroyed by Muslims. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_wo...yed_by_Muslims

Quote:
But, I do think very similar to my Brother squall-lionheart , we just have different ways of presenting our views. We both desire to defend Islam and remove the misconceptions. We are First Muslim, but we are also individual humans with our own opinions as to the best way to present the truth about Islam.
I believe that you and other Muslims are not here to defend, but to proselytize, and it is getting really annoying.

Quote:
I do see the possibility for Peaceful coexistence among the 4 Judeo-Christian religions (Everybody keeps forgetting the Sabians). It will take dialogue, understanding and getting politics out of religion.
I don't, as long as Islam desires to be the one and only religion in the world and turn the human population into mindless slaves of allah.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 10:05 PM
 
35 posts, read 33,341 times
Reputation: 20
I've not read the full thread, but what I've seen in other conversations on this topic is this, "Israel feels they need X, Y, Z. They must have it to be secure." I think it's important to ask, if Israel gets X, Y, Z, can the Palestinians also have X, Y, Z. That is the question that few dare to ask, in fear of being labeled antisemitic. It is a repugnant bigotry to label someone as prejudice, if they merely ask fair questions for balancing equality on both sides. Don't let the louder shouter win the argument because they bang their shoe on a podium.

On the other hand, Muslims have not helped their cause by embracing violence. India embraced Ghandi's nonviolent approach for a while. It worked, but perhaps because they opposed a Christian country, rather than Israel or a Muslim nation. Nonviolence hasn't worked yet in the Mideast, but there's always hope.

I did read someone talk about Indonesia being a peaceful country. Have you never heard of the tortures suffered by the Christian Timorese at the hands of "peaceful" Indonesian Muslims? If that's the best example the Muslim world has, it's a failure. But I still wouldn't use that as an excuse to treat the Palestinians badly. Also, not all of Palestinians are Muslims.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Then why do you do it? Here is a long list of sacred sites destroyed by Muslims. List of worship places converted or destroyed by Muslims - WikiIslam
Why did the Germans do the same in WW2? The Nazis no more represented Christianity than any Muslim nation represents Islam. I am not going to judge the actions of any person or group of people. All will face the only true judgement on Judgement day. I will speak out against atrocities I see by any people. But I see them as the acts of individuals and not as the teaching of their religion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I believe that you and other Muslims are not here to defend, but to proselytize, and it is getting really annoying.
We get paid a bounty for each non-Muslim we drag to the Mosque.

Neither I nor any other Muslim will gain anything nor loose anything if anybody does or does not convert to Islam. Our responsibility for Da'wah is to be available to explain Islam to those who are curious to learn about Islam. There is no mosque membership or any type of organization to join. A person being Muslim is between the person and Allaah(swt). Not one of us knows for certain who is or who is not a Muslim. Many Muslims have never even seen a mosque or even know any other Muslims except for themselves. There is no membership to a Mosque. We pay no tithes to support Islam, everything is at home and local. I am currently building a Mosque, for the only purpose that about 25 Muslims I know will have a place to pray together. Although all Muslims are of one Ummah, we are still very individual.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I don't, as long as Islam desires to be the one and only religion in the world and turn the human population into mindless slaves of allah.
We do not want sheeple or blind followers. We want people to come to Islam because they have searched on their own and come to the conclusion it is the truth. Yes we would like to see the entire world accept Islam. But that is not going to happen until after the return of Jesus(PBUH)
We see Islam as a safety line being thrown out to drowning people. they are free to either grab it or swim the other way. I for one am not going to dive into the water and try to make them grab it.
 
Old 06-05-2011, 11:03 PM
 
35 posts, read 33,341 times
Reputation: 20
Woodrow,

Not meaning to be contentious, but what is your explanation of calling Indonesia peaceful in regards to the massacre of Timorese Christians?
 
Old 06-05-2011, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtus View Post
Woodrow,

Not meaning to be contentious, but what is your explanation of calling Indonesia peaceful in regards to the massacre of Timorese Christians?
the Terrorists that invaded Timor do not seem to have been Indonesian, although they seem to being wearing the name of Muslim it may be they are al-Qaida.

Quote:
Australia is investigating reports that four al-Qaeda terrorists may have slipped into East Timor across its porous land border with Indonesia.
But East Timor's Minister of Interior Rogerio Lobato rejected the claims.
The four men - said to be two South Africans, a Kuwaiti and a Turk - could have entered East Timor over the last few weeks, the Portuguese news agency Lusa reported, citing diplomatic sources in the former Portuguese territory.
The four had come to the attention of Indonesian authorities and were named as: Feroz Abu Bakar Ganchi and Zubair Ismail of South Africa; Mushin Fadhi, also known as Abu Samia, of Kuwait; and Abu Ubaydah al Turki, also known as Ubaida Ubeyde, of Turkey.
The group was first identified in a classified report by Indonesian authorities in January.
That report said the men were in Indonesia and had hopes of crossing the East Timor border, which is relatively poorly patrolled and exploited by smugglers and crime gangs.
Minister Lobato said his Government had investigated the reports and they were not accurate, although four men had crossed the border on March 7.
"We have been in touch with Interpol and we have also investigated with our own intelligence services," he told AAP.
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