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Old 05-31-2011, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Pean View Post
He spewed hatred towards Christians and Jews many times. He slaughtered, pillaged, and raped 1000's of Jews and Christians , and treated them worse than second class citizens, and you say I am lost. How is it I am lost?
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,895 posts, read 31,793,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Click on the post number icon and it will take you to your original post. those exact words are in your post.



faith, and needs no proof.


That is called taking words out of context, which is what you do when you post just part of an ayyat or surah.
I thought you were a fairly honest guy...I was wrong.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:05 PM
 
591 posts, read 561,411 times
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2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.”


3:118: “O you who believe! Take not as your helpers or friends those outside your religion since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the verses if you understand.”


5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allâh guides not those people who are the wrong­doers.”
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:13 PM
 
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I love all the surat of the Qur'an...
This Audio to surat Al.Rahman

( Surat Ar-Rahman - The Holy Qur'an - ?????? ?????? )

woodrow LI
may Allah reward you....
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Just to be clear . . . are you suggesting that there could ever be a context from the entire hadith that could explain or justify what is in bold??

Let us begin with surah 5 Ayyat 60 Which actually reads as:

60. Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah. those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

It is actually talking about those who worshiped evil

Now let us reate it a bit more to the Surah

The surah deals with backsliders and to those who lie about their worship.

55. Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
56. As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.
57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
58. When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.
59. Say: "O people of the Book! Do ye disapprove of us for no other reason than that we believe in Allah, and the revelation that hath come to us and that which came before (us), and (perhaps) that most of you are rebellious and disobedient?"
60. Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah. those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"
61. When they come to thee, they say: "We believe": but in fact they enter with a mind against Faith, and they go out with the same but Allah knoweth fully all that they hide.
62. Many of them dost thou see, racing each other in sin and rancour, and their eating of things forbidden. Evil indeed are the things that they do.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Now let us look at 7:176 &179

They actually say:

176. If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.


179. Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

Surah 7 is a doctrine of revelation and man's spiritual history

to put those 2 ayyats in context let us look at the lines preceding and following them

172. When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":
173. Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"
174. Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).
175. Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by: so Satan followed him up, and he went astray.
176. If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.
177. Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.
178. Whom Allah doth guide,- he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance,- such are the persons who perish.
179. Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).
180. The most beautiful names belong to Allah. so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names: for what they do, they will soon be requited.
181. Of those We have created are people who direct (others) with truth. And dispense justice therewith.
182. Those who reject Our signs, We shall gradually visit with punishment, in ways they perceive not;
183. Respite will I grant unto them: for My scheme is strong (and unfailing).
184. Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.
185. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe?
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
Reputation: 7407
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,895 posts, read 31,793,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Now let us look at 7:176 &179

They actually say:

176. If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.


179. Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

Surah 7 is a doctrine of revelation and man's spiritual history

to put those 2 ayyats in context let us look at the lines preceding and following them

172. When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":
173. Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"
174. Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).
175. Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by: so Satan followed him up, and he went astray.
176. If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.
177. Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.
178. Whom Allah doth guide,- he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance,- such are the persons who perish.
179. Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).
180. The most beautiful names belong to Allah. so call on him by them; but shun such men as use profanity in his names: for what they do, they will soon be requited.
181. Of those We have created are people who direct (others) with truth. And dispense justice therewith.
182. Those who reject Our signs, We shall gradually visit with punishment, in ways they perceive not;
183. Respite will I grant unto them: for My scheme is strong (and unfailing).


184. Do they not reflect? Their companion is not seized with madness: he is but a perspicuous warner.
185. Do they see nothing in the government of the heavens and the earth and all that Allah hath created? (Do they not see) that it may well be that their terms is nigh drawing to an end? In what message after this will they then believe?
The only difference I see is the ancient prose...It still condemns disbelievers.
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Old 05-31-2011, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I thought you were a fairly honest guy...I was wrong.
If you notice, if you click the arrow icon on the out of context quote, it will take you to your original post. Nothing was added or changed. Just part of what you said was quoted. It was taken out of context. This is why I get equally upset when people quote out of context.

The anti Islamic sites such as jihadwatch, answering Islam and others use that ploy all the time. I do not mind if people disagree with me, but please disagree about what is actually said and not just fragments

I agree what I did was sneaky and deceptive. Which is what anybody is when they quote anything out of context. To say you have taken something out of context, is not a lame excuse. It is pointing out deceit by omission.
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The only difference I see is the ancient prose...It still condemns disbelievers.
Is that not what you believe? Do you not believe that those who do not follow your concept of Jesus(PBUH) are disbelievers condemned to hellfire?

the only difference between you and I is who we each see as being believers or disbelievers.

To a Christian a Muslim is a disbeliever. to a Muslim a Christian is a disbeliever and we both believe the disbelievers are condemned to hell fire and we want to point out their errors to save them from the horrible fate that awaits them,
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