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Old 06-11-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
As has been noted before you are not a native american, but are married to a native american and no one forces you to live on a reservation.....

You are making a choice that you had freedom to make...

And you were free to choose your religion and to practice it freely without fear of death....

If you chose to leave Islam you would not have to fear death for being an apostate....

You live in a country with courts and laws and democracy...

This country is not perfect but it is heaven compared to what most Muslims live with in other countries with absolute dictatorships, monarchies, and then you have countries like Iran that are run by Mullahs....

The USA may not be perfect but it is heaven compared to many places....
Technically I could live in Israel if I chose. Since Judaism is inherited through the Mother's side and once a Jew, a person is always a Jew even if they do not practice (at least 30% of the Jews in Israel are non practicing) My Mother's Grandmother was Jewish but converted to Catholicism, Her Daughter was therefore considered Jewish under Judaism as was her daughter (my Mother) and by birthright so am I. I am Muslim even if under Judaic Law I am considered to be a Jew.

However because of attitudes like this in Israel, I would never want to live there.

Quote:
[SIZE=+1]Genocide Announced[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants, and even their beasts." This was the religious opinion issued one week ago by Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director of the Tsomet Institute, a long-established religious institute attended by students and soldiers in the Israeli settlements of the West Bank. In an article published by numerous religious Israeli newspapers two weeks ago and run by the liberal Haaretz on 26 March, Rosen asserted that there is evidence in the Torah to justify this stand. Rosen, an authority able to issue religious opinions for Jews, wrote that Palestinians are like the nation of Amalekites that attacked the Israelite tribes on their way to Jerusalem after they had fled from Egypt under the leadership of Moses. He wrote that the Lord sent down in the Torah a ruling that allowed the Jews to kill the Amalekites, and that this ruling is known in Jewish jurisprudence.[/SIZE]

SOURCE




Yes I live in the USA by choice, I have also lived in numerous other countries by choice and by Military assignment. I live on the rez because I dislike the wasichu government off the rez even more. I have yet to find any nation that has complete freedom. I do not live in an Islamic Nation, because such does not exist. I live in the USA because it has only been in the USA I have found localities that approach shariah law. In most states Shariah is permitted for civil matters provided all parties agree to it, just as in most states Judaic law is permitted for Civil matters as long as all parties agree.

Iran is further from Shariah than the USA is. It could easily be the least Islamic Nation on Earth. Although many of the shii do follow Islam I have found many that are deeply practicing Bidah(innovations)
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:37 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Technically I could live in Israel if I chose. Since Judaism is inherited through the Mother's side and once a Jew, a person is always a Jew even if they do not practice (at least 30% of the Jews in Israel are non practicing) My Mother's Grandmother was Jewish but converted to Catholicism, Her Daughter was therefore considered Jewish under Judaism as was her daughter (my Mother) and by birthright so am I. I am Muslim even if under Judaic Law I am considered to be a Jew.

However because of attitudes like this in Israel, I would never want to live there.



SOURCE




Yes I live in the USA by choice, I have also lived in numerous other countries by choice and by Military assignment. I live on the rez because I dislike the wasichu government off the rez even more. I have yet to find any nation that has complete freedom. I do not live in an Islamic Nation, because such does not exist. I live in the USA because it has only been in the USA I have found localities that approach shariah law. In most states Shariah is permitted for civil matters provided all parties agree to it, just as in most states Judaic law is permitted for Civil matters as long as all parties agree.

Iran is further from Shariah than the USA is. It could easily be the least Islamic Nation on Earth. Although many of the shii do follow Islam I have found many that are deeply practicing Bidah(innovations)



This is my only issues with the heredity of Judaism.... That those who truly deserve to be called Jews are not and those who are Jewish simply because of an accident of birth and who have turned their backs on their people are considered Jewish even though they convert to other religions...


http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...or-the-curious

So were your ancestors Jewish or Muslim?

Because no where in this forum do you say anything about Jewish ancestry, it seems to be about muslim ancestry.... It speaks about the forced conversions of the native muslim population to Catholicism and the only Jews were Kariam Jews.

I am going to get sidetracked briefly and mention another people thay also came to Lithuania with the Tatars (Lipkas) these were the Karaims they were non-Semitic Jews who lived somewhere in the region of Macedonia and Turkey. Although they were Jews they lived peacefully with the Muslims and when in 1397 the Crusaders were trying to force Lithuania into Christianity, they joined with the Tatars to fight the Teutonic Knights and also went to Lithuania. They were virtually exterminated by the Teutonic Knights and today only about 240-260 Karaims remain all living in Traika Lithuania. They were not Hebrew speaking Jews and spoke a Turkic based language, no more than 50 people worldwide still speak it and they live in Traika. Although the Karaim still practice a Judaic based relegion, the Jews do not consider them to be Jew. I mention them simply to point out that the Christian Crusaders were not only enemies of the Muslims, they were also enemies of the Jews. I also wanted to Show that at one time relations between Muslims and Jews were very peaceful and that in the past they fought a common enemy.

Last edited by Jazzymom; 06-11-2011 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
This is my only issues with the heredity of Judaism.... That those who truly deserve to be called Jews are not and those who are Jewish simply because of an accident of birth are considered Jewish even though they convert to other religions...
That is a big issue. At last look the majority of Israel is non-practicing and Israel now has one of, if not the highest rates of Atheism Also some of the early settlers on the Kibbutz were considered to be Jewish by birth but were practicing other religions. Many Russians, Poles and Lithuanians dug out the family tree, just for free land.

When Israel was first formed my mother actually got an invitation to migrate to Israel, expenses paid, even though nobody in the family practiced Judaism for 3 generations. Even today my sister's kids, under Judaic law are considered to be Jews. My kids aren't as Judaism is inherited through the Mother only.

Israel is not Jewish, it is Zionist and it seems the current Rabbis there are getting to be more than a touch militant. Practicing Jews seem to be leaving Israel if the immigration stats are true. this is going to leave Israel as being Jewish in name only. right now only about 20% of Israeli Jews are practicing Jews.

Quote:
In Israel, the number of emigrants exceeded the number of immigrants for the first time in 20 years, the Israeli daily Yediot Ahronot reported Friday.
Many emigrants were recent arrivals who wanted to leave Israel again, the report said. In 2007, 14,400 immigrants are expected in Israel while 20,000 people are expected to leave the country, according to the report based on figures for the first months of 2007.
The last time emigration exceeded immigration was in the aftermath of the 1973 Yom Kippur War and in 1983 and 1984 when inflation was high.
Meanwhile the Maariv newspaper reported that approximately a quarter of the Israeli population was considering emigration.
Almost half of the country's young people were thinking of leaving the country, the report said. Their reasons included dissatisfaction with the government, the education system, a lack of confidence in the political ruling class and concern over the security situation.

SOURCE
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
This is my only issues with the heredity of Judaism.... That those who truly deserve to be called Jews are not and those who are Jewish simply because of an accident of birth and who have turned their backs on their people are considered Jewish even though they convert to other religions...


Lietuva Lipkas for the curious

So were your ancestors Jewish or Muslim?

Because no where in this forum do you say anything about Jewish ancestry, it seems to be about muslim ancestry.... It speaks about the forced conversions of the native muslim population to Catholicism and the only Jews were Kariam Jews.

I am going to get sidetracked briefly and mention another people thay also came to Lithuania with the Tatars (Lipkas) these were the Karaims they were non-Semitic Jews who lived somewhere in the region of Macedonia and Turkey. Although they were Jews they lived peacefully with the Muslims and when in 1397 the Crusaders were trying to force Lithuania into Christianity, they joined with the Tatars to fight the Teutonic Knights and also went to Lithuania. They were virtually exterminated by the Teutonic Knights and today only about 240-260 Karaims remain all living in Traika Lithuania. They were not Hebrew speaking Jews and spoke a Turkic based language, no more than 50 people worldwide still speak it and they live in Traika. Although the Karaim still practice a Judaic based relegion, the Jews do not consider them to be Jew. I mention them simply to point out that the Christian Crusaders were not only enemies of the Muslims, they were also enemies of the Jews. I also wanted to Show that at one time relations between Muslims and Jews were very peaceful and that in the past they fought a common enemy.
I identify primarily with my Tatar Heritage, from both hordes although for most of my family the Golden Horde(Mongol) side is most dominant. the Jewish Heritage on my Mother's side Dates back to only her Grandmother who most likely would have been Polish Jew as from what I can trace she was born in Krakow. I believe most of those came from Odessa, Russia originally. So technically I would be about 1/8 Jewish, 1/2 Golden Horde Tatar 1/8 white Horde Tatar and the remainder a hodgepodge from probably Russia and China and one wandering Scotsman who was my Father's Grandfather. Since the Golden Horde Tatar are most of me it is what I identify closest with.

The Lipkas and the Karaim did have very good relations with each other. But I do not find any in my family tree. But I have been unable to trace it back further than my Parent's Grandparents. It would not surprise me if it turns out there are some Karaims in the Family tree. would just add to the variety.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:01 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is a big issue. At last look the majority of Israel is non-practicing and Israel now has one of, if not the highest rates of Atheism Also some of the early settlers on the Kibbutz were considered to be Jewish by birth but were practicing other religions. Many Russians, Poles and Lithuanians dug out the family tree, just for free land.

When Israel was first formed my mother actually got an invitation to migrate to Israel, expenses paid, even though nobody in the family practiced Judaism for 3 generations. Even today my sister's kids, under Judaic law are considered to be Jews. My kids aren't as Judaism is inherited through the Mother only.

Israel is not Jewish, it is Zionist and it seems the current Rabbis there are getting to be more than a touch militant. Practicing Jews seem to be leaving Israel if the immigration stats are true. this is going to leave Israel as being Jewish in name only. right now only about 20% of Israeli Jews are practicing Jews.



SOURCE

To be Jewish is to be part of a religion and a people.... That is why you can claim any Jewishness....

Just because all Jews aren't observant does not mean they do not claim to be Jewish....

Yes it is to bad the ultra orthdox seem to be in control in Israel of who is a Jew.

That means that many Jewish people who leave for various reasons may not go back, it is not because they don't support the state or don't want to be there. It is in many ways because of the Ultra orthodox and the control they have over the state.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
To be Jewish is to be part of a religion and a people.... That is why you can claim any Jewishness....

Just because all Jews aren't observant does not mean they do not claim to be Jewish....

Yes it is to bad the ultra orthdox seem to be in control in Israel of who is a Jew.

That means that many Jewish people who leave for various reasons may not go back, it is not because they don't support the state or don't want to be there. It is in many ways because of the Ultra orthodox and the control they have over the state.
Sorry I have no desire to get close to my Jewish ancestry. the Mongol ancestors are bloody enough, fortunately they calmed down after accepting Islam. The Jewish ancesters are a bit too blood thirsty for me.

The reality is I have never met any of my Jewish relatives, I doubt if any escaped the Nazis. If any have survived I would actually like to met them. One of the branches on the family tree I have not met any of the fruit from.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:56 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sorry I have no desire to get close to my Jewish ancestry. the Mongol ancestors are bloody enough, fortunately they calmed down after accepting Islam. The Jewish ancesters are a bit too blood thirsty for me.

The reality is I have never met any of my Jewish relatives, I doubt if any escaped the Nazis. If any have survived I would actually like to met them. One of the branches on the family tree I have not met any of the fruit from.

Well now you are part of an extremely violent religion.... So much for your high and mighty attitude....
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Well now you are part of an extremely violent religion.... So much for your high and mighty attitude....
My reply was an attempt at humor, I am guilty of having a very bizarre sense of humor.


While many of the adherents of both Islam and Judaism are extremely emotional and violent. I doubt if it is a trait of either belief. but more a cultural heritage of some of the members. Over all I find neither Jews or Muslims to be any more violent than other people. People can be quite brutal, without regard to their religion. The world would be much more violent without religious beliefs.
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:36 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
The world would be much more violent without religious beliefs.
But only through religion are true atrocities committed by otherwise decent human beings.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,874 posts, read 31,750,270 times
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But only through religion are true atrocities committed by otherwise decent human beings.
That reminds me of a quote I read...

Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.........Voltaire
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