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Old 06-13-2011, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Islam is a false religion, if it allows and sponsors open debate and free thought, it will crumble. That is why science stopped being welcomed in Muslim controled lands. They don't want to hear the truth, they want lip service to their fantasy. I'd say Europeans should stop whining and do something about it, have more children and send them off to live in muslim lands and have lots of children there. I mean, what is wrong with having children and indoctrinating them into your believes? *sarcasm* Anyway, I don't see the difference between the oppresion we have under Christians and the oppresion we'll have under Muslims, we won't let them impose their self-righteous morality on us, end of story.
You may notice that many Muslims even those living in Islamic Nations have computers and do visit sites of all types, including this site. I would say we get exposure to other views and do face frequent questioning of our beliefs.That should also indicate that Islam does allow for open debate and free thought.

I don't see many of us crumbling as a result of debate or free thought. also there are a considerable number of Muslim scientists still walking the earth. Education is a very high priority for us. The Science and medical fields attract Muslims and many do enter into them.

As for imposing our views upon others, everybody by the simple act of being imposes his/her views either intentionally or unintentionally. A persons presence can be seen as an imposition of views.

As for science being unwelcome in Muslim controlled lands, if that were true would there be any fear of countries such as Iran developing Nuclear weapons? How could a nation of ignorance be able to do such a thing if science is suppressed. If the sciences and modern technology were truly suppressed would there be any need to fear that Islam could spread? Sorry. but the sciences are alive and well in much of the modern Islamic world and it really does not pose a threat to you or anyone else. We do have some fools in even the best of Islamic nations and they are a threat not only to non-Muslims but also to Muslims.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,996,789 times
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I don't think Iran would be a good place to question the orthodox beliefs. As far as science is concerned, of course Iran welcomes any of its applications which will further the power of the country and the spread of Islam, in the same way that Christianity was spread by the sword centuries ago.
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Old 06-13-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
I don't think Iran would be a good place to question the orthodox beliefs. As far as science is concerned, of course Iran welcomes any of its applications which will further the power of the country and the spread of Islam, in the same way that Christianity was spread by the sword centuries ago.
Iran is probably the most firm in the implementation of what they perceive as being Islam.

But, I'll accept your view and ask what Islamic nation do you see as being hostile to science or free thought? Remember a predominately country does not mean it is Islamic.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:34 PM
 
222 posts, read 416,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
what Islamic nation do you see as being hostile to science or free thought?
Saudi Arabia?

Home to Mecca, Medina and a load more Islamic tourist tat.

Women can't drive in Saudi for some reason. Why is that then? (Apart from women being crap drivers!)

You wouldn't want to be gay there either. And if you want to be a Hindu, Bhuddist or a Christian, well don't bother 'cos it ain't worth the sacrifice - or maybe it is depending upon your religion and capacity for pain!

Islam would be irrelevant if it wasn't for oil. Oil is God's way of telling us we should invent transport that doesn't use oil!
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:28 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,026,706 times
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That is why separation of church and state is so important!

Many christians try so hard to push the boundaries of this separation stating that we have freedom OF religion and not freedom FROM religion. However, they will have a rude awakening when they are no longer the majority and our children are going to have to listen to prayers to allah in the schools, politicians are going to be elected based on the support of an islamic voting block, and legislation could be passed based on their religious beliefs. Sound familiar? The separation of church and state protects ALL religions, keeping any one from gaining power. Let's not chip away at it!
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Guy View Post
Saudi Arabia?

Home to Mecca, Medina and a load more Islamic tourist tat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by London Guy View Post
Women can't drive in Saudi for some reason. Why is that then? (Apart from women being crap drivers!)
This seems to be changing. Women should be able to drive there soon,possibly even by the time you read this.

Quote:
Saudi Arabia’s Freedom Riders

By FARZANEH MILANI

Published: June 12, 2011


THE Arab Spring is inching its way into Saudi Arabia — in the cars of fully veiled drivers.
On the surface, when a group of Saudi women used Facebook, Twitter and YouTube to organize a mass mobile protest defying the kingdom’s ban on women driving, it may have seemed less dramatic than demonstrators facing bullets and batons while demanding regime change in nearby countries. But underneath, the same core principles — self-determination and freedom of movement — have motivated both groups. The Saudi regime understands the gravity of the situation, and it is moving decisively to contain it by stopping the protest scheduled for June 17.
The driving ban stems from universal anxiety over women’s unrestrained mobility. In Saudi Arabia that anxiety is acute: the streets — and the right to enter and leave them at will — belong to men. A woman who trespasses is either regarded as a sinful “street-walker” or expected to cover herself in her abaya, a portable house. Should she need to get around town, she can do so in a taxi, with a chauffeur (there are 750,000 of them) or with a man related to her by marriage or blood behind the wheel.
Although the Islamic Republic of Iran could not implement similarly draconian driving laws after the 1979 revolution, given that women had driven cars there for decades, the theocratic regime did denounce women riding bikes or motorcycles as un-Islamic and sexually provocative. Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, proclaimed in 1999 that “women must avoid anything that attracts strangers, so riding bicycles or motorcycles by women in public places involves corruption and is forbidden.”
The Saudi regime, like the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Taliban in Afghanistan, the military junta in Sudan and the Islamic Salvation Front in Algeria, ordains the exclusion of women from the public sphere. It expects women to remain in their “proper place.”
Indeed, the rulers in Saudi Arabia are the most gender-segregated in the world today. In official ceremonies, and in countless photographs, posters and billboards, the royal family seems to be composed solely of men.
This desire to deny women entrance into the public arena is inaccurately presented as a religious mandate. Yet there is no basis for such exclusion in the Koran. On the contrary, in the early years of Islam, women were a vital presence in Muslim communities. They attended mosques, engaged in public debates and got involved in decision-making processes. Aisha, one of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad, commanded an army of men while riding on a camel. If Muslim women could ride camels 14 centuries ago, why shouldn’t they drive cars today? Which Koranic injunction prohibits them from driving?
Gender apartheid is not about piety. It is about dominating, excluding and subordinating women. It is about barring them from political activities, preventing their active participation in the public sector, and making it difficult for them to fully exercise the rights Islam grants them to own and manage their own property. It is about denying women the basic human right to move about freely.
That is why the women defying the ban on motorized mobility are in fact demanding an eventual overhaul of the entire Saudi political system. They want not just to drive but to remap the political geography of their country.
These women know the value of a car key. Like the man who faced down tanks in Tiananmen Square, like the unprecedented number of women participating in protests across the Middle East and North Africa, the Saudi women’s campaign for the right to drive is a harbinger of a new era in the region.
It may require decades to see an end to the Middle East’s gender apartheid and the political reconfigurations that would necessarily follow. One thing is certain though: the presence of women and men demonstrating side by side in the streets of Iran, Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen and Syria is a sign of more seismic upheavals ahead. Old categories have broken down and the traditional distribution of power and space is no longer viable.
The women demonstrating for the right to drive in Riyadh are seasoned negotiators of confined spaces and veteran trespassers of closed doors and iron gates. They are a moderating, modernizing force to be reckoned with — and an antidote to extremism.
Their refusal to remain silent and invisible or to relinquish their rights as citizens is an act of civil disobedience and moral courage. Their protest, and those of their sisters across the Middle East, represent a revolution within revolutions — and a turning point in the contemporary history of Islam.
Farzaneh Milani, chairwoman of the Department of Middle Eastern and South Asian Languages and Cultures at the University of Virginia, is the author of “Words, Not Swords: Iranian Women Writers and the Freedom of Movement.”


SOURCE

I expect the ban to be lifted as in most Islamic countries women are permitted to drive. this seems to be a cultural restriction and not related to Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by London Guy View Post
You wouldn't want to be gay there either. And if you want to be a Hindu, Bhuddist or a Christian, well don't bother 'cos it ain't worth the sacrifice - or maybe it is depending upon your religion and capacity for pain!
Quote:
The Kingdom in the Closet

Sodomy is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, but gay life flourishes there. Why it is “easier to be gay than straight” in a society where everyone, homosexual and otherwise, lives in the closet


Yasser, a 26-year-old artist, was taking me on an impromptu tour of his hometown of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on a sweltering September afternoon. The air conditioner of his dusty Honda battled the heat, prayer beads dangled from the rearview mirror, and the smell of the cigarette he’d just smoked wafted toward me as he stopped to show me a barbershop that his friends frequent. Officially, men in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to wear their hair long or to display jewelry—such vanities are usually deemed to violate an Islamic instruction that the sexes must not be too similar in appearance. But Yasser wears a silver necklace, a silver bracelet, and a sparkly red stud in his left ear, and his hair is shaggy. Yasser is homosexual, or so we would describe him in the West, and the barbershop we visited caters to gay men. Business is brisk.
SOURCE




Quote:
Originally Posted by London Guy View Post
Islam would be irrelevant if it wasn't for oil. Oil is God's way of telling us we should invent transport that doesn't use oil!
Very few Muslims have any oil income. If somebody becomes Muslim because they expect a share of the Arab oil wealth, they will be very disappointed.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,193,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
If Islam overtakes the world we can expect to live as to those in Saudia Arabia, Iran, Libya, or Syria, to name a few countries that have authoritarian governments. There is only 1 democratic Muslim country and that is Turkey.
Out of the vast Islamic world there is only Turkey. That speaks volumes as to what the world would look like under Muslim rule.

And as to the truth only 2 religions think they have the truth and want to see their truths spread worldwide and that would be Islam and Christianity.
Many religions think they have the truth, and most would like to see it widespread. However not all of them are as aggressive as Christianity and Islam. It's not just religions however, it's any set of beliefs or institution that wants to spread their "truth." Communism, socialism, capitalism, nationalism, racism, any ism that mankind chooses to identify with. Anything that makes "us" right and "them" wrong.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:09 PM
 
222 posts, read 416,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
This seems to be changing. Women should be able to drive there soon,possibly even by the time you read this.
SOURCE
I expect the ban to be lifted as in most Islamic countries women are permitted to drive. this seems to be a cultural restriction and not related to Islam.
SOURCE
Very few Muslims have any oil income. If somebody becomes Muslim because they expect a share of the Arab oil wealth, they will be very disappointed.
Crap crap crap. Islam is evil, political and about 500 years behind the Roman Catholic church.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,302,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London Guy View Post
Crap crap crap. Islam is evil, political and about 500 years behind the Roman Catholic church.
Which is why I left the Catholic Church. I witnessed so many changes in just the first 20 years of my life. I could not tell what was Catholicism. The changes from 1940 to 1960 were so drastic that by 1960 I could no longer recognize the Catholic Church I grew up in.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,895 posts, read 31,793,503 times
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Catholicism to Islam? That's like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, don't ya think?
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