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View Poll Results: What is a Muslim?
A terrorist 2 11.11%
The anti-Christ 1 5.56%
a Hater of Christians and Jews 4 22.22%
A savage desert living barbarian 0 0%
A fanatic 0 0%
A misguided fool 3 16.67%
A moon worshiper 1 5.56%
A born liar 1 5.56%
The Sworn enemy of Israel 0 0%
Other, please state in a post 6 33.33%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOB View Post
I do not agree with you:

Proofs:

Islam Watch - Links to other websites
Do you honestly believe that if we kill apostates that website would last long? If we were half as fanatical as you seem to think, there would be a world wide hunt for the "apostates" on that site.

Reading a few of them I doubt if any of the alleged apostates ever even seen the inside os a Mosque. sound like Christian fundies trying to stir things up.

Did you also notice how many of the links are actually advertisements for things ranging from Real estate to dating services?
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:40 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Do you honestly believe that if we kill apostates that website would last long? If we were half as fanatical as you seem to think, there would be a world wide hunt for the "apostates" on that site.

Reading a few of them I doubt if any of the alleged apostates ever even seen the inside os a Mosque. sound like Christian fundies trying to stir things up.

Did you also notice how many of the links are actually advertisements for things ranging from Real estate to dating services?
Please Woodrow you know that in Muslim countries apostates are actually killed.

One American was in the news for being arrested for having the nerve to name a bear in her class Muhammad and they were calling for her to be killed for insulting the prophet.

Rushdie had to go into hiding for a long long time because he wrote a book called the Satanic Verses.....

These things happen..

Only in non muslim countries are people safe to leave Islam and dare to call it into question...
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Please Woodrow you know that in Muslim countries apostates are actually killed.
Please look at the countries in which it is being done by the State/Nation. I believe the only nation that has had any executions of people convicted of Apostasy has been in Iran. However, some countries such as Pakistan there is an unislamic practice of 'Honor Killings" in which the family kills an apostate. I believe that is almost an exclusive Pakistani practice and one which Imans have been trying to stop for years. They are an abomination and reflect the old tribal ways.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
One American was in the news for being arrested for having the nerve to name a bear in her class Muhammad and they were calling for her to be killed for insulting the prophet.
the teacher(Gillian Gibbons) was British and teaching in Sudan. As the teacher was teaching Muslim Children in a Christian run Missionary School. the local Authorities did see it as a deliberate insult of Muhammad(PBUH).
She was detained for 8 days and then sent back to the UK


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Rushdie had to go into hiding for a long long time because he wrote a book called the Satanic Verses.....
Look at the country and who demanded his execution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
These things happen..

Only in non muslim countries are people safe to leave Islam and dare to call it into question...
Ask Hamid Pourmand a former army colonel in the Iranian Army and a lay leader of the Iranian branch of the Assemblies of God church in Bander. If he was executed in Iran after leaving Islam.

He was sentenced to 3 years prison for not resigning from the Army after converting to Christianity. He was released 14 months early and still lives in Iran.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
thanks my brother Woodrow

Violence exists in both the people of the three religions but Focus on Islam is the problem in the West...

Muslims are peaceful and millions of them good and loving, when they find, for example, ten violent Muslims are focusing on them while good millions they are Closing their eyes !!!

about Sites that are anti-Muslim By non-Muslims and apostates ,that is something normal that happens why ? cause any person who leaves his religion will not praise ,Undoubtedly

now I can bring Dozens of sites that are against Judaism and Christianity from people who left ..


about Punishment of the apostate,Why focus only on Islam again ?
all monotheistic religions have been cruel to non-believers in many different ways...

Apostasy's punishment in christianity and judaism is DEATH also, but they are Do not adhere to their books


Deuteronomy 13:6-11 — If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again"


The death penalty in Judaism
Comment: The death penalty in Judaism « Messianics Exposed


Christianity and the Death Penalty
Christianity and the Death Penalty - How Does Christianity Look at the Death Penalty


but they are Do not adhere to their books

that's it
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
We knew that the death to apostate was in both the three religions and a focus on Islam is the only prejudice and hatred as I posted above


Misconception: Death for apostasy :


Background: Some think that once you are a "muslim" if you decide to change your beliefs you are considered an apostate, an act punishable by death!


The Quran clearly states there are those who believe then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve again. This proves death for apostasy simply did not exist, because if it did, it would be impossible to believe again after unbelief, as they would have been put to death after the first unbelief:


Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, God will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path. [4:137]


This is further proven by the following verse:

How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they witnessed that the messenger is true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people. [3:86]


The Quran states, in no uncertain terms, that there is no compulsion in religion:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most sure hand-hold, that never breaks. And God is Hearing, Knowing. [2:256]


The Quran states that God could have made all those on earth believe

thus asks who is man to enforce such a thing if God did not:


And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers? [10:99]


The Quran states there were those who believed part of the time, then disbelieved part of the time in order to confuse and sow discord amongst the believers of the time. If death for apostasy existed, no sane minded person would attempt to do this as they would be killed the very first time they tried it:


A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) Turn back. [3:72]


Please also see the clear example set out in 4:88-91, in which the believers are told to offer peace with those who became hypocrites/apostates (i.e. were Muslim in name only but did not follow through with action during hostilities/fighting in this case) if they also offer peace.


To conclude, it is clear that 'death for apostasy' does not exist in The Quran. People are free to believe and live their lives accordingly or not. If a community or system or any structure deprives its members of this basic freedom, it will produce hypocrites and suppressed people who have no strength of belief or goals to work for and will likely result in a weak system or community. Freedom of belief is the air that healthy and just communities breathe.

source :

Misconception: Death for Apostasy in Islam
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Old 06-12-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,788,057 times
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Penalty for being homosexual in an Islamic nation...A picture is worth a thousand words...Perhaps more.





Penalty for adultery in some Islamic nations..

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Old 06-12-2011, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Penalty for being homosexual in an Islamic nation...A picture is worth a thousand words...Perhaps more.





Penalty for adultery in some Islamic nations..
Both of the pictures are true. the first one was in Iran and it is a very common punishment for homosexuals there. That does not mean they got a fair trial or the execution was in accordance with Islam. For a conviction of homosexuality it requires 4 reliable witnesses that clearly saw a sex act occurring. A legal conviction is impossible if all sex act are kept in private. But, that is Iran and to a very large degree it is under the rule of the Ayatoullah and not the Qur'an.

The bottom one was taken in Somalia. It was a man being stoned for adultery . I do not know the particulars of the story, but judging by the looks it was not a government trial but rather vigilante villagers who did the stoning. A little more can be read here SOURCE
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:36 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
[quote=weaam;19559487]thanks my brother Woodrow

Violence exists in both the people of the three religions but Focus on Islam is the problem in the West...

That is because we see the violence coming from muslims

Muslims are peaceful and millions of them good and loving, when they find, for example, ten violent Muslims are focusing on them while good millions they are Closing their eyes !!!

Its not 10 violent muslims..... It is many more then that you need to open your eyes

about Sites that are anti-Muslim By non-Muslims and apostates ,that is something normal that happens why ? cause any person who leaves his religion will not praise ,Undoubtedly

Yeah that is always how those who are in a religion view those who leave it and have negative things to say about it. But what is the truth is that those who have been members of a group do understand it from the inside and all that happens within it.



now I can bring Dozens of sites that are against Judaism and Christianity from people who left ..


about Punishment of the apostate,Why focus only on Islam again ?
all monotheistic religions have been cruel to non-believers in many different ways...

Apostasy's punishment in christianity and judaism is DEATH also, but they are Do not adhere to their books


Deuteronomy 13:6-11 — If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again"


The death penalty in Judaism
Comment: The death penalty in Judaism « Messianics Exposed


Christianity and the Death Penalty
[url=http://civilliberty.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/qt/dp_christianity.htm]Christianity and the Death Penalty - How Does Christianity Look at the Death Penalty[/url


but they are Do not adhere to their books

that's it

They don't kill people for apostasy or homosexuality because they have grown and are beyond that. Are you suggesting that they listen to their books and kill for those reasons?
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
If I might add to Jazzymom's post, in our country our laws are not based on any religious sacred book. I wonder, is it possible for the believers of Islam to live in a country who is not governed by any religion and not try to change that country's laws to reflect Islam, the separation of government and religion.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post

They don't kill people for apostasy or homosexuality because they have grown and are beyond that. Are you suggesting that they listen to their books and kill for those reasons?
Sadly every religion has it's share of people who commit atrocities and believe they are acting in accordance with their religion. Gay bashing and killing occurs here in the USA more often than executions occur in Iran. That does not mean I should believe it is something all Christians do.

Apostasy of Catholicism still results in honor killings in parts of Italy, Spain, Mexico and other predominately Catholic nations. But I doubt if that is the "official" teachings of Catholicism. We all have our lunatic element.

I believe Believe my sister was saying that the reason Jews and Christians do not kill people for Apostasy and Homosexuality is because they do not follow their Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures of both are quite violent.

We can spend a very long time playing the "Your religion is more violent than mine." game and accomplish nothing except become very good at using google.


The fact is we all have violent people in our faiths. some even believe they are obeying God(swt). Terrorism is a religion in itself, all terrorists follow the same religion no matter what they call themselves.

The issue today and for tomorrow is "What group has access to the most destructive weapons?" The answer to that will most likely identify who will be the next Terror Religion and what weapons they will use.

So far nobody would seriously consider a first strike with Nukes. However, the cost of them is so high that at some point somebody will use one just to justify the need for having them. That may be the next major act of terrorism. The only question is who will be the culprit.
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