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View Poll Results: What is a Muslim?
A terrorist 2 11.11%
The anti-Christ 1 5.56%
a Hater of Christians and Jews 4 22.22%
A savage desert living barbarian 0 0%
A fanatic 0 0%
A misguided fool 3 16.67%
A moon worshiper 1 5.56%
A born liar 1 5.56%
The Sworn enemy of Israel 0 0%
Other, please state in a post 6 33.33%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Dubai
241 posts, read 432,521 times
Reputation: 129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronOB View Post
Firstly why converts are punished by death in Muslim countries?

The Punishment of the Apostate According to Islamic Law

Secondly please explain follows verses from Quran.

Quotes from the Qur'an

Thirdly what is about Al-Taqiyya, it seems somebody here is telling fairy tales.

Twelve Tactics of "Al-Taqiyya" - lying and deception for the promotion of Islam | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=119376404750172&topic=1632 - broken link)

Fourthly why do you believe that we absolutely need your Islam?

>>>>>>>>>>
the first two site is blocked in my computer !!!
Quran says :- «whoever kills the same or corruption in the earth as if he killed all people live as if it is recited by all people» al maeida 32 «and who Aidon with Allah another god, nor slay such life as Allah has forbidden except by right» al forqan 68
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but commit no excess for Allah loveth not aggressors" al baqara 190
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:08 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,427,230 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19561406]Sadly every religion has it's share of people who commit atrocities and believe they are acting in accordance with their religion. Gay bashing and killing occurs here in the USA more often than executions occur in Iran. That does not mean I should believe it is something all Christians do.

But Woodrow people are not killed by the government for being gay.... There is a difference between gay bashing and government sanctioned killing of gays and lesbians.

Apostasy of Catholicism still results in honor killings in parts of Italy, Spain, Mexico and other predominately Catholic nations. But I doubt if that is the "official" teachings of Catholicism. We all have our lunatic element.

I believe Believe my sister was saying that the reason Jews and Christians do not kill people for Apostasy and Homosexuality is because they do not follow their Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures of both are quite violent.

And the quran is violent too... the difference is we don't stone folks anymore and that happens in Muslim nations like Iran and Somalia. Christians and Jews don't always take a literal reading of the Bible. Even those who do don't stone.

We can spend a very long time playing the "Your religion is more violent than mine." game and accomplish nothing except become very good at using google.


The fact is we all have violent people in our faiths. some even believe they are obeying God(swt). Terrorism is a religion in itself, all terrorists follow the same religion no matter what they call themselves.

The issue today and for tomorrow is "What group has access to the most destructive weapons?" The answer to that will most likely identify who will be the next Terror Religion and what weapons they will use.

So far nobody would seriously consider a first strike with Nukes. However, the cost of them is so high that at some point somebody will use one just to justify the need for having them. That may be the next major act of terrorism. The only question is who will be the culprit.

and yes violence happens in the name of religion. I have never said Islam was the only one to be violent. Islam is now violent while Christianity out grew the violence. I see that Jews for the most part have been on the receiving end of the violence of Christians. I also see that over and over Muslims come to this forum and try to justify the violence, or downright deny it.

Until the people of the book see the truth of violence and why it happens and learn to respect each other it will never end.

The world is full of injustices and history is full of injustice. We can't change the past we can only move forward.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Sadly every religion has it's share of people who commit atrocities and believe they are acting in accordance with their religion. Gay bashing and killing occurs here in the USA more often than executions occur in Iran. That does not mean I should believe it is something all Christians do.
That is either a lie or you are very ignorant to the facts, and it is a despicable method of debate....Since 1980 more than 4000 homosexuals have been publicly executed in Iran (one small Islamic nation)..How many gays have died or been executed in other Muslim nations.This does not include the many that no doubt died at the hands of homophobes. In America 5 people died at the hands of anti gay bigots in 2005..( latest figure I could find) None died at the hands of the government.

In most Islamic countries, homosexuals are despised, persecuted and sometimes even killed. Repressive regimes foment hatred against “effeminized men.” Allah

Quote:
Apostasy of Catholicism still results in honor killings in parts of Italy, Spain, Mexico and other predominately Catholic nations. But I doubt if that is the "official" teachings of Catholicism. We all have our lunatic element.
You will need to back that up...I do not believe you.

Quote:
I believe Believe my sister was saying that the reason Jews and Christians do not kill people for Apostasy and Homosexuality is because they do not follow their Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures of both are quite violent.

We can spend a very long time playing the "Your religion is more violent than mine." game and accomplish nothing except become very good at using google.
Sorry, but you Muslims lose big time in that game...No religion even comes close to the atrocities committed in the name of Islam.

Quote:
The fact is we all have violent people in our faiths. some even believe they are obeying God(swt). Terrorism is a religion in itself, all terrorists follow the same religion no matter what they call themselves.
No true at all...You are just making stuff up trying to defend that which is indefensible...You have 1.5 to 2 million terrorists, but you also have probably the same number if not more anti gay bigots...You have Islamic governments and courts persecuting whipping and executing people for all sorts of religious driven reasons...Hell Islam even punishes victims of rape in some cases.
Quote:
The issue today and for tomorrow is "What group has access to the most destructive weapons?" The answer to that will most likely identify who will be the next Terror Religion and what weapons they will use.
We all know which religion reigns supreme in the terror and atrocity department today...You cannot blind yourself to the facts we see almost daily.

Quote:
So far nobody would seriously consider a first strike with Nukes. However, the cost of them is so high that at some point somebody will use one just to justify the need for having them. That may be the next major act of terrorism. The only question is who will be the culprit.
Well I know who would use them if they had them, and so do you.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
That is either a lie or you are very ignorant to the facts, and it is a despicable method of debate....Since 1980 more than 4000 homosexuals have been publicly executed in Iran (one small Islamic nation)..How many gays have died or been executed in other Muslim nations.This does not include the many that no doubt died at the hands of homophobes. In America 5 people died at the hands of anti gay bigots in 2005..( latest figure I could find) None died at the hands of the government.

In most Islamic countries, homosexuals are despised, persecuted and sometimes even killed. Repressive regimes foment hatred against “effeminized men.” Allah
I could only find executions of 5-10 people for being gay in Islamic nations, nearly all in Iran. You could have found other sources, please post a link to your 4000 figure, I can not find it. I accept your word you did find such, but I have not been able to. A link would be appreciated.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
You will need to back that up...I do not believe you.
No problem check this for a start.

Quote:
In Italy, several episodes in recent years suggest that violence against women is still tolerated both by some Italian authorities and parts of society when the victim is perceived as having dishonored or upset her murderer.
Last year local church authorities defended a man in Macerata, a small town in central Italy, who had attempted to kill his wife because she asked for a divorce. Francesca Carletti-Baleani wanted to leave her husband because he had cheated on her. Bruno Carletti responded by beating her until she was unconscious, wrapping her body in a plastic bag and dumping it into a trash bin on the outskirts of town.
Carletti-Baleani miraculously survived, and her husband confessed to attempting to kill her. "It was an act of love," wrote Father Igino Ciabattoni, a leader of the White Cross Catholic organization. The priest also accused the victim of "torturing her husband" because she refused to take him back.
In 2007, in the Sicilian town of Palermo, Renato Di Felice served only two days in prison, despite being found guilty of purposely killing his wife, Maria Concetta-Pitas, in 2003: the couple's children had testified that their mother had been disrespectful toward her husband, moving the judge to a mild sentence.
"All statistics suggest intimate partner violence is on the rise," says Cinzia Tani. "Often the victims are working women, whose husbands or boyfriends cannot tolerate their economic independence," she argues. "Paradoxically, emancipation has increased this kind of violence against women."
Tani also argues that society is often indulgent to those men killing their spouses or girlfriends in cases of infidelity. "Those men are rarely depicted as murderers by the media, and courts are likely to treat them more leniently," she says.
"The stereotype is still dominant: if a woman cheats on her man and gets killed, she must have brought it upon herself," Tani suggests. "Interestingly enough, when it's a woman who becomes violent out of passion, it is not so easily tolerated."
Passion and honor-related crimes against women seem so engrained in Italian society that in 2006 a German court granted extenuating circumstances on the basis of "ethnic and cultural background" to a Sardinia-born man who had his girlfriend gang-raped because he feared she might have cheated on him.
"All Italians, and those living in Sardinia particularly, felt insulted and outraged by this German sentence," notes Sabahi. "Yet when similar crimes take place among the Arab immigrants, Italian authorities tend to blame it on Islam, without caring about offending the Muslim community."
SOURCE

I can post similar things from French, Spanish and Mexican Catholic sources.




Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Sorry, but you Muslims lose big time in that game...No religion even comes close to the atrocities committed in the name of Islam.
Much of Nazi germany was fine upstanding Christians.
Quote:
The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to Adolf Hitler, the Führer of the German Reich, supreme commander of the armed forces, and that I shall at all times be prepared, as a brave soldier, to give my life for this oath."


Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No true at all...You are just making stuff up trying to defend that which is indefensible...You have 1.5 to 2 million terrorists, but you also have probably the same number if not more anti gay bigots...You have Islamic governments and courts persecuting whipping and executing people for all sorts of religious driven reasons...Hell Islam even punishes victims of rape in some cases.
Except for the first sentence, that is true. Muslims especially Arab Muslims are very homophobic. Much goes back to the time when the Greeks were raiding Arab villages to capture young boys as sex slaves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
We all know which religion reigns supreme in the terror and atrocity department today...You cannot blind yourself to the facts we see almost daily.
True them Christians starting with their crusades have a very bloody history



Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Well I know who would use them if they had them, and so do you.
I can think of several that I believe would use them if they had them the 2 most likely being Iran and North Korea, I give them both equal probability. Followed closely by Cuba, and Taiwan. Out of the countries that do have them I believe Israel is the most likely to use them. I do not see them doing so at the moment, but if they feel too badly threatened by Iran I think they would.
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I could only find executions of 5-10 people for being gay in Islamic nations, nearly all in Iran. You could have found other sources, please post a link to your 4000 figure, I can not find it. I accept your word you did find such, but I have not been able to. A link would be appreciated.
I guess you didn't look very hard did you?

Islamic Bigotry: The Slaughter of 4 - 000 Gays - Islamo-Fascism - Terrorism Awareness Project
The Battle Between Monotheism and Homosexuality
FrontPage Magazine - Complicity in Iran's Anti-Gay Jihad


Quote:
No problem check this for a start.



SOURCE

I can post similar things from French, Spanish and Mexican Catholic sources.
Jealousy killings are common all over the world...Nothing at all to do with whatever religion they practce.




Quote:
Much of Nazi germany was fine upstanding Christians.
Typical of you to bring up old history, that had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.....We are talking about TODAY





Quote:
Except for the first sentence, that is true. Muslims especially Arab Muslims are very homophobic. Much goes back to the time when the Greeks were raiding Arab villages to capture young boys as sex slaves.

True them Christians starting with their crusades have a very bloody history
Again we are not talking about ancient history.





Quote:
I can think of several that I believe would use them if they had them the 2 most likely being Iran and North Korea, I give them both equal probability. Followed closely by Cuba, and Taiwan. Out of the countries that do have them I believe Israel is the most likely to use them. I do not see them doing so at the moment, but if they feel too badly threatened by Iran I think they would.

Israel? How do you think they could use nuclear weapons on nations that border Israel without harming their own people?
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
I guess I overlooked them as they are pro gay anti-Islamic sites and the 4000 figure comes from the same source a Mr. Scott Long, who does not give any source for where he got that number from, Unless Scott Long is a Farsi Name and he was an eyewitness living in Iran.




Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Jealousy killings are common all over the world...Nothing at all to do with whatever religion they practce.
True, but it does seem that when a Muslim does the same you attribute it to Islam.






Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Typical of you to bring up old history, that had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity.....We are talking about TODAY
than feel free to ignore me. I know I have a tendency to ramble







Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Again we are not talking about ancient history.
OK








Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Israel? How do you think they could use nuclear weapons on nations that border Israel without harming their own people?
I suppose their Nuclear arsenal is just an expensive status symbol that they have no plans of using.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,884 posts, read 31,776,624 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I guess I overlooked them as they are pro gay anti-Islamic sites and the 4000 figure comes from the same source a Mr. Scott Long, who does not give any source for where he got that number from, Unless Scott Long is a Farsi Name and he was an eyewitness living in Iran.
Scott Long graduated from Radford University at the age of 17, and received a Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1989 at the age of 25....He seems credible to me.

I expected you to question the source or dismiss it altogether, but you have done both...How do you get around wearing blinders all the time?

Quote:
True, but it does seem that when a Muslim does the same you attribute it to Islam.
No, I have never done that. The only atrocities I have mentioned are directly linked to Islam.

Quote:
than feel free to ignore me. I know I have a tendency to ramble
I may as well, because you are so blinded to what you suppose is the beauty of Islam, you see no wrong in it, but constantly equivocate, deny or blame the other guy.

Quote:
I suppose their Nuclear arsenal is just an expensive status symbol that they have no plans of using.
Instead of making a snide remark why don't you answer my question.... How do you think they could use nuclear weapons on nations that border Israel without harming their own people?

Last edited by sanspeur; 06-13-2011 at 12:41 AM..
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:56 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Not cutting you off, it is 2am here and I need to get to bed, so for the moment I am going to just answer one part and call it a night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Instead of making a snide remark why don't you answer my question.... How do you think they could use nuclear weapons on nations that border Israel without harming their own people?
They can't without killing themselves. Which I believe they would quite willingly do if they felt Israel would fall into Arab hands.

But more realistically, Iran would be their most likely target. Which would be at a safe distance for a low yield nuke in about the Hiroshima class.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,291,704 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Scott Long graduated from Radford University at the age of 17, and received a Ph.D. from Harvard University in 1989 at the age of 25....He seems credible to me.
And that explains how he arrived at the 4000 figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I expected you to question the source or dismiss it altogether, but you have done both...How do you get around wearing blinders all the time?
I try to make for friendly conversations not have war zones

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
No, I have never done that. The only atrocities I have mentioned are directly linked to Islam.
We were discussing honor killings by Muslims and I said it was common among some Catholics, you said prove it. I posted links and you agreed it was not religion. But, immediately before you were saying it was Islamic

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I may as well, because you are so blinded to what you suppose is the beauty of Islam, you see no wrong in it, but constantly equivocate, deny or blame the other guy.
Islam is perfect, but we Muslims are humans and not perfect.
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Old 06-13-2011, 08:01 AM
 
570 posts, read 636,894 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Islam is a religion.

Right now it is a very violent religion.

Every time a terror attack occurs that is carried out by muslims, or a non muslim is killed in the name of Islam. A church and the Christians who go there harassed or killed. A synagogue attacked or an attack thwarted that was in the planning by muslims. It is seen as violent.

When Muslims fly planes into buildings, blow up embassies, and kill innocent civilians that is violence.

When Muslims try to call terrorists just freedom fighters that is seen as violence by others.

When muslims kill folks just because of cartoons that is violence. When people are killed because a quran is burned that is violence.

Everyday Christians and Jews are insulted by others but we don't go on killing sprees.

Bibles have been burned and I have seen cartoons depicting Jesus but Christians don't go on killing sprees.

I think that Muslims need to take a look at just why many see Islam as violent and taking a look at the many ugly posts here from muslims may be a start.

Just a thought.
you ( Zionist Jews ) made those terrorist looks like angels comparing to you
The only difference is that you just like to keep your killing "local" with much larger number of victims
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