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Old 06-29-2011, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,836,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are assuming there is a central government over all Muslims. None exists. There are no true Islamic nations and each nation no matter if it calls itself Islamic, it is independent. There is just as much difference among the alleged Islamic nations as there is between the USA and Japan, in fact Japan and the USA may be more similar to each other, than any 2 Islamic Nations are.
no, you are bound together by Islam. When you see your brothers and sisters fired upon in Syria, is there no effort to help them? If not, why not? Where is your compassion for innocent protestors, trying to overthrow a dictator?

edit: I am aware that your religion is your gov't, that is why we want nothing to do with it here. You would abide by your own religious law, and not ours. We abide by the Constitution, all citizens are treated equally, and must abide by our laws.

Last edited by claudhopper; 06-29-2011 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
no, you are bound together by Islam. When you see your brothers and sisters fired upon in Syria, is there no effort to help them? If not, why not? Where is your compassion for innocent protestors, trying to overthrow a dictator?
While most Muslims do have the compassion to help the oppressed, the governments of most Islamic Nations are pro western. In Syria at the moment any wrong help would be more detrimental than beneficial. the peaceful protests seem to be the most effective and are awakening world governments to the plight of the Syrian plight. Yes many have died in protesting Assad, but over all this seems to have been the best choice as any disorganized quasi military help would result in a greater loss of innocent lives.

There is also the issue that most of us do not know what form of government the protestors are seeking to establish. It may be that some consider their desires to be against Islam and they will have a worse government than they have under Assad.

The disire to help the oppressed is of no use without the means and knowledge to give genuine help. For many of us the only help we can give is to let our own governments know of and become interested in the Syrian people. Look what happened in Iraq. People wanted help in disposing of Saddam, but the aftermath has proven to be worse than Saddam was. To jump in without knowledge can result in the same carnage for the people of Syria,
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:12 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,741,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
While most Muslims do have the compassion to help the oppressed, the governments of most Islamic Nations are pro western. In Syria at the moment any wrong help would be more detrimental than beneficial. the peaceful protests seem to be the most effective and are awakening world governments to the plight of the Syrian plight. Yes many have died in protesting Assad, but over all this seems to have been the best choice as any disorganized quasi military help would result in a greater loss of innocent lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There is also the issue that most of us do not know what form of government the protestors are seeking to establish. It may be that some consider their desires to be against Islam and they will have a worse government than they have under Assad.

The disire to help the oppressed is of no use without the means and knowledge to give genuine help. For many of us the only help we can give is to let our own governments know of and become interested in the Syrian people. Look what happened in Iraq. People wanted help in disposing of Saddam, but the aftermath has proven to be worse than Saddam was. To jump in without knowledge can result in the same carnage for the people of Syria,
I dont think there is any muslim nation that is very pro western, all they do is have interests such as trading interests with western nations. Some muslim nations even have defence links with nations such as the USA. However there are muslim nations that have strived to give the muslim nations like an western nation such as what AtatŁrk did with Turkey and even resorting to banning the veil and turban.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 9,836,951 times
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You might have a point Woodrow. I wanted to prove to you that Iraq was better now, but I'm not sure I can. About half the population says it was better with Saddam.

Raymond Ibrahim: "Christian life in Iraq has been a living hell ever since U.S. forces ousted the late Saddam Hussein in 2003"
Quote:
The threat of extermination is not empty. Since the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime, more than half the country's Christian population has been forced by targeted violence to seek refuge abroad or to live away from their homes as internally displaced people. According to the Hammurabi Human Rights Organization, over 700 Christians, including bishops and priests, have been killed and 61 churches have been bombed. Seven years after the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Catholic Archbishop Louis Sako of Kirkuk reports: "He who is not a Muslim in Iraq is a second-class citizen. Often it is necessary to convert or emigrate, otherwise one risks being killed." This anti-Christian violence is sustained by a widespread culture of Muslim supremacism that extends far beyond those who pull the triggers and detonate the bombs.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/raymond-ibrahim-christian-life-in-iraq-has-been-a-living-hell-ever-since-us-forces-ousted-the-late-s.html

We can't babysit you forever.
You are bound and determined to kill, whether it is eachother or the infidels. We can't take the barbarian out of the neanderthal goat-herders. I'm for all our troops coming home, we have lost nearly 4500 and counting. For what?
The latest development:
For example, American officials have said they believe that Moktada al-Sadr, the anti-American cleric who disbanded his Mahdi Army in 2008 and has taken on a prominent political role, is still linked to some armed groups that attack Americans. Even more troubling for the Americans ó and Iraqi Sunnis, for that matter ó are Mr. Sadrís frequent statements that he will reactivate the Mahdi Army if the American military does not withdraw by the end of this year. An agreement that binds the United States and Iraq requires that all American forces leave by yearís end, but the Iraqi political leadership is considering asking for American troops to stay to continue training the Iraqi forces.
Mr. Sadrís statements about returning to violence if the Americans prolong their stay has created a political dilemma for Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, who relied on the support of Mr. Sadrís followers in Parliament to secure a second term.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/world/middleeast/27iraq.html
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
In most cases of comparison for the western media, which also Al-jazeera fits the description of western media, the life of Muslims has no select cases to portray. It must be a portrayal of the essential Muslim tradition for the rating of the evaluated justice applied to Muslim values: Muslim achievement, Muslim horror. We believe that it is a person or group of people which accounts the worth of belonging over and against the freedom for desiring western wealthy progressive things (the material side of ideas). Yes: to many, as skeptically to believe essential goodness for the religious activity of worship, professed ideology for the perfect or perfectable life. Just what it must be believable as. But reality dictates particular cases of failure; this is even more and more prevalent; though things must change for the Good, still even the media of even these other medium constantly admits to the aspirations of people to overthrow regimes, and this always seems to be the freedom of individualism against the traditions, the the tradition to Love Mohammed against freedom. But the truth is that neither universal nor particular gives way. It is not submission for any unity in collective individuality. Just call that Sin; just call that trust for respectability in the neighbourhoods. If the submission succeeds (that must mean that Islam has strict adherence; some kind of meta-physical worth for well-being) the message is after-all that Muslims absolutely always represent Islam.

Anti-muslim slants of media always are ill-representative and absolutely that is not Islam. I think the government of Libya's medium would say a lot does not represent Islam.


Al-jazeera, respectful, fair Channel and shows the events without fabrication, Both arabic and English, I see Al-jazeera the best media in the Middle East In terms of coverage of the events of the Islamic countries as they are.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Apology accepted...I really should make allowances that English is not your first language...I will in the future.

Just so you know, I love my kids and would give my life for them, and they love me as well.
I know , may Allah save them to you along
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Weaam you need to stop and listen. You want to know why we in the west don't trust Islam and I am telling you.

We would never have been in Afghanistan if we had not been attacked.
We probably would never have gone into Iraq. But what you are doing is instead of listening to my words you are deflecting the conversation.

I don't want to argue with you because I am just telling you why there is much mistrust in my country.

Several of the recent attacks from muslims came from muslims who live in the same area I live in. Anwar Al-Awlaki who is in Yemen now and leads a terrorist network came from a mosque close to me.

Every time innocents are killed by muslims in the name of Islam it causes the world to look at Islam with more scrutiny.

There is no justification for the war on country Other just for One or two people waged war on America, Makes no sense to destroy an entire country like Iraq and Afghanistan for the attack of One or two people waged war on America or There are hidden there, How many innocent people killed in Afghanistan and Iraq by America and NATO,


Even now America bear the fatal mistakes in the Middle East as a whole,waht did it only increase but a violence and Hatred, revenge by Its Savagery actions so I'm now talking about the state only, regardless of religions, Not a logical that bear innocent peoplea few the attackers's mistakes for they are only Muslims!!


But the West ( Governments) does not care but its interests, even if at the expense of Muslims

Only used bin Laden to fight the Russians and then killed him

How America killed bin Laden in front of his sons!!! then Buried him in the sea...


The adult sons of Osama bin Laden have lashed out at President Obama over their father's death, accusing the US of violating its basic legal principles by killing an unarmed man and disposing of his body in the sea. The statement said the family was asking why Osama "was not arrested


The adult sons of Osama bin Laden have lashed out at President Barack Obama in their first public reaction to their father's death, accusing the United States of violating its basic legal principles by killing an unarmed man, shooting his family members and disposing of his body in the sea. The statement, provided to The New York Times on Tuesday, said the family was asking why bin Laden, the leader of al-Qaida, "was not arrested and tried in a court of law so that truth is revealed to the people of the world." Citing the trials of Saddam Hussein , the former Iraqi leader, and Slobodan Milosevic , the former Serbian leader


source http://article.wn.com/view/2011/05/10/Wrong_to_kill_unarmed_man_Osama_sons/


America has not solved anything but violence and brutality as we see in arab Countries






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Old 06-30-2011, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,111 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
Why has not one other muslim country come to the aid of the Syrians, who are being slaughtered in the streets by a tyrannical gov't? If you ever took care of your own business, we wouldn't have to keep interfering. Why not let your people have running water, and electricity? Why are we over there installing these basics? What has Islam ever contributed the world, other than suffering and despair of your own people? All you seek is empowerment and subjugation, nothing more.
No matter how much destruction you create, and apostates you kill, there is no 12 Imam.........give it up.....your life is based on a lie.

as we still (Arab peoples) call in all Arab countries Our leaders to stand with our brothers and sisters in Syria but No respondent, Because they like him (Bashar al-Assad) so Arab rulers are dictators do not want to support the rebels..

We are all Muslims, men, children of women, scholars, Institutions, Writers thinkers all Stand with the Syrian people and the Yemeni and Libyan But what do you expect from the civilians have no authority for overthrow the government of Syria


see all those, that all our energies

Demonstrate in front of the Arab League in solidarity with Syria


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vt2fUJ8u7I



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-OwebrQnM8&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtgqNkIz7yI&feature=related












Only Muslim ruler who stood with Syria and stop with all Arab countries is (Turkey) Erdogan which is really a Muslim

He Received thousands of Syrians refugees And do a lot to protect the lives of Muslims there
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,507,852 times
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Default My question though about the Islam media from the governments.

Is this to be considered anything to be rectified by religious faith and reconciliation, OR is this just a suggestive way of the government of Libya after-all showing that the wayward ways of the people is real against the islamic Sharia as much as that refusal to be devout towards tradition after-all by the women?

Personally I don't get it; even CNN is falling for the belief in the fake feminism.

Libya's Gadhafi calls for volunteers, women answer - CNN.com
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,111 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
You might have a point Woodrow. I wanted to prove to you that Iraq was better now, but I'm not sure I can. About half the population says it was better with Saddam.

Raymond Ibrahim: "Christian life in Iraq has been a living hell ever since U.S. forces ousted the late Saddam Hussein in 2003"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/raymond-ibrahim-christian-life-in-iraq-has-been-a-living-hell-ever-since-us-forces-ousted-the-late-s.html

We can't babysit you forever.
You are bound and determined to kill, whether it is eachother or the infidels. We can't take the barbarian out of the neanderthal goat-herders. I'm for all our troops coming home, we have lost nearly 4500 and counting. For what?
The latest development:
For example, American officials have said they believe that Moktada al-Sadr, the anti-American cleric who disbanded his Mahdi Army in 2008 and has taken on a prominent political role, is still linked to some armed groups that attack Americans. Even more troubling for the Americans ó and Iraqi Sunnis, for that matter ó are Mr. Sadrís frequent statements that he will reactivate the Mahdi Army if the American military does not withdraw by the end of this year. An agreement that binds the United States and Iraq requires that all American forces leave by yearís end, but the Iraqi political leadership is considering asking for American troops to stay to continue training the Iraqi forces.
Mr. Sadrís statements about returning to violence if the Americans prolong their stay has created a political dilemma for Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, who relied on the support of Mr. Sadrís followers in Parliament to secure a second term.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/world/middleeast/27iraq.html



Quote:

Raymond Ibrahim: "Christian life in Iraq has been a living hell ever since U.S. forces ousted the late Saddam Hussein in 2003"

of course.

So, how Iraq was and how it now after America

Quote:

BAGHDAD, Dec. 30 -- Former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein had been dead no more than 11 hours, but to Um Noor, he might as well have died three years ago.
"We've forgotten about him," Noor said late Saturday afternoon, as she stood in the jeans store she owns in central Baghdad.
Like many Iraqis, Noor once feared Hussein, who rose to power 24 years ago by ruthlessly wiping out his enemies. When U.S. troops ousted him in 2003, many Iraqis believed their days of living in fear were over.
But three years later, Iraqis are still a terrorized people. Now, instead of Hussein, they fear the car bombs that maim and kill every day, the kidnappers who snatch people off the streets in broad daylight, the mortar shells that fall on residential neighborhoods. And they fear each other, as Shiite Muslims fight Sunni Arabs in what is spiraling into a civil war.
Despite an infusion of billions of dollars in reconstruction funds from the United States, they are watching their quality of life deteriorate. They spend hours each day with no electricity. They wait in long lines for fuel. And they pay higher prices for food while their salaries remain the same.
"Everything is worse," Noor said. "What did we gain from him being gone?"
The initial jubilation among many Iraqis following Hussein's execution Saturday morning gave way to the realization that his death would not bring an end to the daily violence that Iraqis now endure or improve the services they could once count on.


Noor, a petite 36-year-old, struggles to pay the $300 a month it costs to rent the space for her store in the Karrada district of Baghdad. By the time she buys fuel for the generator to light her shop, there is little money left to provide for her two daughters. She has fewer customers now, she said, because people cannot afford to buy jeans with rhinestones and bows that sell for $20 or more a pair.
"With all that we are facing, I have to face this," she said, eyeing her front door nervously. She was there alone and it was getting dark, almost time for her to lock up. She used to keep her shop open until midnight. Now she leaves by 6 p.m. to avoid Baghdad by night. "I'm a woman alone," she said.
Sameer Dawoud, 62, has owned an art gallery in Baghdad since 1984. People bought art back then. Now, they don't want to brave the streets to browse the works hanging on his walls. The frames on his paintings of the Tigris River and Arabian horses are dusty. Several nearby art galleries have been shuttered.
Dawoud said he does not expect Hussein's death to end the violence that keeps his customers away. "Whoever is playing on the field, he will continue playing," he said.
Many Iraqis said Hussein became irrelevant long ago, when U.S. troops found him hiding in a hole near his home town of Tikrit in December 2003. He emerged looking dirty and bewildered, erasing the image most Iraqis had of him as a figure bent on domination.

Elation Gives Way to Dread of Daily Life


Quote:

During a BBC interview on Monday, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said that the average Iraqi was better off under Saddam Hussein's regime than now. Under Saddam, "they had their streets, they could go out, their kids could go to school," according to Annan.
Annan also called the present situation "much worse" than the last civil war in Lebanon. Secretary General Annan joined the ranks of a growing list of critics of the Iraq war who also say life was better under Saddam.
In October 2006, former Chief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix said it "is undoubtedly worse" now than under Sadamm. And in April 2006, Senar Mahammad, president of Baghdad-based NGO Woman Freedom Organization said that "women are less respected now than they were under the previous regime." CNN Exposed Review: Annan, others: Iraq better off under Saddam
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