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Old 06-30-2011, 11:19 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19823261]What rights do I need? Nothing can stop me from praying. I can do that no matter where I am. If need be, by myself in silence. I have no need for wealth, although I do currently have an above average income, I can do without it and have done so many times. I have no need of fearing any laws as most I have no intent nor desire to break and if there are any I might be tempted to break, I don't have the ability to do so.

You have the right to pray and to dress in Islamic fashion. In many middle east countries a Jew or a Christian would not be allowed to do so. They would find that churches or synagogues do not exist. In many middle eastern countries those of other religions face attack. If they are allowed to practice their religion it is not in freedom. So yes you get to practice your religion.

It makes little difference how much freedom you have when your own body has become a prison. things I would love to do again would be to one more time fly a plane out over the Gulf of Mexico and put it through it's paces. ride a horse, although I have over 20 horses I can no longer climb on one. I would love to do some more paintings and write some more poetry, but eyesight and inability to concentrate any more, limits even that. I would love to walk through the woods again and enjoy the wind in my face, if only I was once again able to walk more than a few feet at a time.

What need do I have of freedom, when my body has betrayed me and become a prison? a life now that is dependent upon the internet, to interact with the world. Freedom of rights is of very little use and actually of little value. True freedom is the simple ability to stand up and walk outside on your own.

I am sorry you find yourself with such limitations. But I was speaking of The rights you have in this country you would not have in the middle east.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
[quote=weaam;19824151]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post


yes, that's what I meant ,thank you very much my brother, you are great , may Allah bless you , can you correct to me this as it must is in english pleas ?


if you know arabic would have read all this rejection in our forums
I believe you are translating the Arabic concept of

ف. شجب, استنكر, اتهم, أبلغ, شعر رسميا بشجب

as being rejection. A more accurate translation would be denounce. so I am reading your sentence as intending to be: If you have understood Arabic, you would see my posts on this forum, have denounced terrorism








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Old 06-30-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
[quote=DAAR84;19823790]This sort of logic reminds me of the "Everything I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11" bumper stickers. I guess continually improving ones knowledge, education, awareness, understanding, etc, isn't an appealing idea then - in your eyes.


I wouldn't necessarily call it 'free reign'. That's sort of a sensational accusation.

It's important... 'jazzymom'... to understand why the relationship between the two developed. You have to understand that many, many, non-afghani fighters helped and assisted the mujahadeen combat the soviet russian bear back between 79 - 89. Obviously, it's no big secret that sheik osama bin laden was a part of this effort. If you take into account the bond of brotherhood that develops between soldiers during times of war, then, perhaps this will lead you to understand further that you simply won't insult, disregard, or cast aside your brothers in arms during later years.

You have to understand as well that the Taliban as well is largely influenced by Pahstun cultural and social norms, customs, etc, and loyalty is a very honorable and righteous thing to that group of people. So for the Taliban and their mujahadeen to turn their backs on al-qaeda during their time of conflict was largely out of the question.

I've never seen any legitimate and unquestionable evidence that says Mullah Omar knew of sheikh Osama's plans and actions. If you have, let me know. Perhaps you work at the Pentagon. I dunno. I don't. I don't pretend to know everything. If you've seen evidence of the sort, let me know.

But what I do know is that the bond of loyalty and brotherhood between the Taliban and al-Qaeda was largely forged YEARS before 9/11 took place - on a personal level. Maybe you were raised differently as a child - no doubt you were raised under a different cultural and value system - but turning your backs on and betraying old friends, comrades, brothers, soul mates, kinsmen, etc, is something not looked upon as righteous and honourable.



DAAR, I am familiar with loyalty and brotherhood among comrades in arms, I am an old warrior myself but I do have a problem with the loyalty that the Taliban showed for Al qaida and Osama bin laden after 9/11, if as you say that Mullah Omar did not know of these plans before hand, why did he continue to support Al qaida, I would think that at that point Mullah Omar would have thought Osama bin laden had betrayed his friendship and loyalty and would not want to have gotten involved.
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
What rights do I need? Nothing can stop me from praying. I can do that no matter where I am. If need be, by myself in silence. I have no need for wealth, although I do currently have an above average income, I can do without it and have done so many times. I have no need of fearing any laws as most I have no intent nor desire to break and if there are any I might be tempted to break, I don't have the ability to do so.

It makes little difference how much freedom you have when your own body has become a prison. things I would love to do again would be to one more time fly a plane out over the Gulf of Mexico and put it through it's paces. ride a horse, although I have over 20 horses I can no longer climb on one. I would love to do some more paintings and write some more poetry, but eyesight and inability to concentrate any more, limits even that. I would love to walk through the woods again and enjoy the wind in my face, if only I was once again able to walk more than a few feet at a time.

What need do I have of freedom, when my body has betrayed me and become a prison? a life now that is dependent upon the internet, to interact with the world. Freedom of rights is of very little use and actually of little value. True freedom is the simple ability to stand up and walk outside on your own.
Woodrow, I too am in the waning years of my life and I believe I have lived many more than you have but the freedoms that we both have in this country are guaranteed to us by our laws, if I lived in another country other than this one I would not be allowed to practice my belief for fear of suffering consequences beyond my control, so it is not just that you have the freedom to practice your religion and say your daily prayers in this country it is the fact that all people of different religions and beliefs can do so without fear of reprisal against them or their family.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
Woodrow, I too am in the waning years of my life and I believe I have lived many more than you have but the freedoms that we both have in this country are guaranteed to us by our laws, if I lived in another country other than this one I would not be allowed to practice my belief for fear of suffering consequences beyond my control, so it is not just that you have the freedom to practice your religion and say your daily prayers in this country it is the fact that all people of different religions and beliefs can do so without fear of reprisal against them or their family.
Peace My friend,

Strange as it may be the only times I lived in any Muslim countries, I was Christian. I was never oppressed for being a Christian in Morocco, Algeria, Lybia, Tunisia, Egypt, Saudi or even Iran and I was in Iran when the Ayatoullah Khomeini was in charge. Plus I was an evangelical at that time trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. But that was way back in the 1960-70s and it is possible things have changed.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
154 posts, read 187,784 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum;1982547[COLOR=black
3][/color]


DAAR, I am familiar with loyalty and brotherhood among comrades in arms, I am an old warrior myself but I do have a problem with the loyalty that the Taliban showed for Al qaida and Osama bin laden after 9/11,


It is what it is. It happened, and now it's a part of history. That's pretty much all that can be said.



Quote:
if as you say that Mullah Omar did not know of these plans before hand, why did he continue to support Al qaida,
That is NOT what I said. In my post I question whether or not Mullah Omar knew. There was nothing concrete about what I spoke of. As for his continuing support - I think I touched on this when I spoke of loyalty, mutual support. Especially in regards to rooting out the Northern Alliance. At the time, Sheikh Osama bin Laden had been brought into Afghanistan to help fight against the NA. Therein, his loyalty and familiarity strengthened further from the old Soviet Occupation.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said no such thing.


Quote:
I would think that at that point Mullah Omar would have thought Osama bin laden had betrayed his friendship and loyalty and would not want to have gotten involved.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. Allahu alim.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAAR84 View Post
It is what it is. It happened, and now it's a part of history. That's pretty much all that can be said.





That is NOT what I said. In my post I question whether or not Mullah Omar knew. There was nothing concrete about what I spoke of. As for his continuing support - I think I touched on this when I spoke of loyalty, mutual support. Especially in regards to rooting out the Northern Alliance. At the time, Sheikh Osama bin Laden had been brought into Afghanistan to help fight against the NA. Therein, his loyalty and familiarity strengthened further from the old Soviet Occupation.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

I apologize of the assumption and I do not mean to put words in your mouth that we're not there. It's possible it's a misunderstanding on my part, however I would still question as to who knew what in what time frame.




Perhaps. Perhaps not. Allahu alim.
Like has been said before, the past is in the past and sometimes it is best to leave it there and move forward.osay
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 801,309 times
Reputation: 229
Here I am after being gone a few days and what a circus. Jeez. How did a topic with so much potential disolve into this?
Is it possible to have a thread where the OP can follow his/her thought and the only people to be involved in to be the people that have a productive interest in the topic?
Crap like the bickering back and forth can be done on all sorts of other threads - like if you started one called:" What do you think of Islam?"

But this thread is called "Islam for Muslims".

I greatly fear I'll end up typing all sorts of cuss words and the mods will spank me with the belt, so please, I simply say please, can this thread get back to its original topic? And if you're not a Muslim, or interested to become one, or willing to peacefully follow the OPs thought-chain, then find another sandbox to play in?
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
Here I am after being gone a few days and what a circus. Jeez. How did a topic with so much potential disolve into this?
Is it possible to have a thread where the OP can follow his/her thought and the only people to be involved in to be the people that have a productive interest in the topic?
Crap like the bickering back and forth can be done on all sorts of other threads - like if you started one called:" What do you think of Islam?"

But this thread is called "Islam for Muslims".

I greatly fear I'll end up typing all sorts of cuss words and the mods will spank me with the belt, so please, I simply say please, can this thread get back to its original topic? And if you're not a Muslim, or interested to become one, or willing to peacefully follow the OPs thought-chain, then find another sandbox to play in?

yes this waht I want, to post for Sunnah, and Everything about Islam, but you know that Once there is a page about Islam you know it will become a mixture of everything


So,What do you think you, and Woodrow for another page of Islam and Muslims and We will move the original posts here in ?
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
[quote=Woodrow LI;19824452]
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post

I believe you are translating the Arabic concept of

ف. شجب, استنكر, اتهم, أبلغ, شعر رسميا بشجب

as being rejection. A more accurate translation would be denounce. so I am reading your sentence as intending to be: If you have understood Arabic, you would see my posts on this forum, have denounced terrorism









I see, thanks my dear brother
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