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Old 06-25-2011, 08:32 PM
 
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19754249]Which is all fine if you live in a mixed culture. I do agree an Islamic State would not be acceptable for many non-Muslims especially if they enjoy alcohol, Music, the mixing of Genders, etc. However, keep in mind most Muslims would prefer to live in an Islamic state if one existed. But, none do exist.

That is your opinion, surely you do not really know what the majority of muslims want. Muslim states actually used to have diversity until they drove out the minorities, they are working on driving out the Christians now. Given that you are an American and have been a muslim for 6 or 7 years I am shocked at your attitudes about diversity vs living in an Islamic state with only muslims.

Muslims have been in the Americas for over 400 years and have lived in peace with their non-Muslim neighbors. In the early history of the USA they did make a fairly large percentage of the USA. But, most had a true Islamic education and followed their De'en, which is peaceful.

To bad muslims in other countries can't live in peace with non muslims. I would be surprised if most muslims who have lived in this country for 400 years had a true Islamic education.

Now to return to the original topic, which is to share Islamic education with Muslims.

The Pillars of faith were mentioned above, we also have the fundamentals of Islam which are:

1, A single, indivisible God. (God, the creator, is just, omnipotent and merciful. "Allah" is often used to refer to God; it is the Arabic word for God.)

2. The angels.

3. The divine scriptures, which include the Torah, the Psalms, the rest of the Bible, (as they were originally revealed) and the Qur'an (which is composed of God's words, dictated by the Archangel Gabriel to Muhammad).

4.The Messengers of God, including Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and Muhammad -- the last prophet; (peace be upon them). Muhammad's message is considered the final, universal message for all of humanity.

5.The Day of Judgment when people will be judged on the basis of their deeds while on earth, and will either attain reward of Heaven or punishment in Hell. They do not believe that Jesus or any other individual can atone for another person's sin. Hell is where unbelievers and sinners spend eternity. One translation of the Qur'an, 98:1-8, states: "The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures." ("People of the Book" refers to Christians, Jews and Muslims). Paradise is a place of physical and spiritual pleasure where the sinless go after death

6.The supremacy of God's will.

In it's simplest form that is what a Muslim is taught and is required to believe and follow. The sincere saying of the shahadah is sufficient for a person to be Muslim. But, it is always our responsibility to learn more to our full ability or end of our life. For most of us our learning comes through reading, and askin questions of any we believe can tell us more. but, we always have the responsibility to verify what we learn and to verify the truth and authenticity of all things.

Essentially we are permitted to do all things that the Qur'an does not forbid. The entire Qur'an is contained in the Surah al-Fatihah 7 short lines. The remainder of the Qur'an explains how to live Surah Al-Fatihah
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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[quote=Jazzymom;19754332]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Which is all fine if you live in a mixed culture. I do agree an Islamic State would not be acceptable for many non-Muslims especially if they enjoy alcohol, Music, the mixing of Genders, etc. However, keep in mind most Muslims would prefer to live in an Islamic state if one existed. But, none do exist.

That is your opinion, surely you do not really know what the majority of muslims want. Muslim states actually used to have diversity until they drove out the minorities, they are working on driving out the Christians now. Given that you are an American and have been a muslim for 6 or 7 years I am shocked at your attitudes about diversity vs living in an Islamic state with only muslims.

Muslims have been in the Americas for over 400 years and have lived in peace with their non-Muslim neighbors. In the early history of the USA they did make a fairly large percentage of the USA. But, most had a true Islamic education and followed their De'en, which is peaceful.

To bad muslims in other countries can't live in peace with non muslims. I would be surprised if most muslims who have lived in this country for 400 years had a true Islamic education.
True that is my opinion. Now let us assume I an wrong. Wouldn't that remove your fear that Muslims want to make the USA an Islamic State? anyhow it is a purely hypothetical concept as no Islamic Nation exists and none will until the return of Jesus(as) and He and the Mehdi will establish it.

Ask the Jews in Iran why they have not left Iran although they had plenty of opportunities to and Israel has even offered to pay them moving expenses and give them free land. Yet they choose to live in Iran.

Iran has the largest Jewish population in the Mideast outside of Israel. Morocco has a number of non-Muslims. I enjoyed Morocco very much when I lived there and that was long before I reverted to Islam. I even attended the University of Rabat to study Arabic. As a non Muslim I had no problems and enjoyed life. Casablanca and Tangiers are still very popular tourist spots for non-Muslims. Near and in Port Lyauty (Kenitra) there are a very large number of Catholic French, Agadir has a large Portuguese population, Roman Catholic.

Most of the old line Muslims in the Americas had/have a very good Islamic education. For most Muslims their education is home schooling, nearly always by their Mother. Only a few countries have Madrassas (Islamic Schools) Islam is basically learned at home. For extended studies such as Islamic Jurisprudence, Science of Hatith or Qur'anic tasfir one usually goes to the University of Alexandria or one of the Universities in Medinah. The University of Texas in Austin has an excellent Islamic studies program and even has students from the Mideast studying the Qur'an there. It is hoped that graduates will help produce English speaking Islamic Scholars to be available as Imams in the USA. Most of us American born Imams have very limited abilities except to lead the prayers. I would love to someday teach Tajweed, but I can not even recite the Qur'an with proper Tajweed. But give me another 50 years of practice and I might finally get it right.
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Old 06-25-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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OOOPs my error
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Old 06-25-2011, 10:19 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19755030][quote=Jazzymom;19754332]

True that is my opinion. Now let us assume I an wrong. Wouldn't that remove your fear that Muslims want to make the USA an Islamic State? anyhow it is a purely hypothetical concept as no Islamic Nation exists and none will until the return of Jesus(as) and He and the Mehdi will establish it.

I don't think my fears are unfounded. You an american has many times talked about the need for Islamic rule for Muslim countries, sharia being good, etc. You as an american who lives in a democracy, where everyone is free to practice their religion, have freedom of speech, and the right to an education supports the way of Islam.

Ask the Jews in Iran why they have not left Iran although they had plenty of opportunities to and Israel has even offered to pay them moving expenses and give them free land. Yet they choose to live in Iran.

However, the Islamic revolution caused many troubles for the Jews of Iran Under the new regime there was no longer any room for Judaism. Many Jews departed to Israel, the United States, and other countries. The remaining Jews face heavy pressure to convert, especially its younger members. In addition, the old anti-Jewish legislation has returned: for example, only a member of the Muslim faith may inherit property; a Muslim that kills a heretic may redeem himself and procure his freedom for $2,500; and travel abroad is restricted.

Iran has the largest Jewish population in the Mideast outside of Israel. Morocco has a number of non-Muslims. I enjoyed Morocco very much when I lived there and that was long before I reverted to Islam. I even attended the University of Rabat to study Arabic. As a non Muslim I had no problems and enjoyed life. Casablanca and Tangiers are still very popular tourist spots for non-Muslims. Near and in Port Lyauty (Kenitra) there are a very large number of Catholic French, Agadir has a large Portuguese population, Roman Catholic.



Most of the old line Muslims in the Americas had/have a very good Islamic education. For most Muslims their education is home schooling, nearly always by their Mother. Only a few countries have Madrassas (Islamic Schools) Islam is basically learned at home. For extended studies such as Islamic Jurisprudence, Science of Hatith or Qur'anic tasfir one usually goes to the University of Alexandria or one of the Universities in Medinah. The University of Texas in Austin has an excellent Islamic studies program and even has students from the Mideast studying the Qur'an there. It is hoped that graduates will help produce English speaking Islamic Scholars to be available as Imams in the USA. Most of us American born Imams have very limited abilities except to lead the prayers. I would love to someday teach Tajweed, but I can not even recite the Qur'an with proper Tajweed. But give me another 50 years of practice and I might finally get it right.


I am very aware of the education of Muslims. Most of my muslim friends homeschool.

They home schooled for the same reason fundamentalist Christians homeschool. So their children don't have to have what they are being taught corrupted.

So their children are never around any other children who think differently.

I will tell you why I turned my back on Islam.

I had a friend and we were at the mosque sitting. She turned to me and said "I don't think I could die for my religion, but I have no doubt my children would choose to die". When she said that chills went down my back.

So you see I know more then you think. I walked out of that building and I never went back.

I don't hate Islam but I will not sit back and say its harmless, it is not and people who truly do not want to lose freedoms will keep a watchful eye on the development of Islam in this country.

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Old 06-26-2011, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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[quote=Jazzymom;19755607][quote=Woodrow LI;19755030]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post

True that is my opinion. Now let us assume I an wrong. Wouldn't that remove your fear that Muslims want to make the USA an Islamic State? anyhow it is a purely hypothetical concept as no Islamic Nation exists and none will until the return of Jesus(as) and He and the Mehdi will establish it.

I don't think my fears are unfounded. You an american has many times talked about the need for Islamic rule for Muslim countries, sharia being good, etc. You as an american who lives in a democracy, where everyone is free to practice their religion, have freedom of speech, and the right to an education supports the way of Islam.

Ask the Jews in Iran why they have not left Iran although they had plenty of opportunities to and Israel has even offered to pay them moving expenses and give them free land. Yet they choose to live in Iran.

However, the Islamic revolution caused many troubles for the Jews of Iran Under the new regime there was no longer any room for Judaism. Many Jews departed to Israel, the United States, and other countries. The remaining Jews face heavy pressure to convert, especially its younger members. In addition, the old anti-Jewish legislation has returned: for example, only a member of the Muslim faith may inherit property; a Muslim that kills a heretic may redeem himself and procure his freedom for $2,500; and travel abroad is restricted.

Iran has the largest Jewish population in the Mideast outside of Israel. Morocco has a number of non-Muslims. I enjoyed Morocco very much when I lived there and that was long before I reverted to Islam. I even attended the University of Rabat to study Arabic. As a non Muslim I had no problems and enjoyed life. Casablanca and Tangiers are still very popular tourist spots for non-Muslims. Near and in Port Lyauty (Kenitra) there are a very large number of Catholic French, Agadir has a large Portuguese population, Roman Catholic.



Most of the old line Muslims in the Americas had/have a very good Islamic education. For most Muslims their education is home schooling, nearly always by their Mother. Only a few countries have Madrassas (Islamic Schools) Islam is basically learned at home. For extended studies such as Islamic Jurisprudence, Science of Hatith or Qur'anic tasfir one usually goes to the University of Alexandria or one of the Universities in Medinah. The University of Texas in Austin has an excellent Islamic studies program and even has students from the Mideast studying the Qur'an there. It is hoped that graduates will help produce English speaking Islamic Scholars to be available as Imams in the USA. Most of us American born Imams have very limited abilities except to lead the prayers. I would love to someday teach Tajweed, but I can not even recite the Qur'an with proper Tajweed. But give me another 50 years of practice and I might finally get it right.


I am very aware of the education of Muslims. Most of my muslim friends homeschool.

They home schooled for the same reason fundamentalist Christians homeschool. So their children don't have to have what they are being taught corrupted.

So their children are never around any other children who think differently.

I will tell you why I turned my back on Islam.

I had a friend and we were at the mosque sitting. She turned to me and said "I don't think I could die for my religion, but I have no doubt my children would choose to die". When she said that chills went down my back.

So you see I know more then you think. I walked out of that building and I never went back.

I don't hate Islam but I will not sit back and say its harmless, it is not and people who truly do not want to lose freedoms will keep a watchful eye on the development of Islam in this country.

I believe I have stated many times there are no Islamic Countries and will not be one until the return of Jesus(as). Yes, I support the return of Jesus(as) and the establishment of a true Islamic world. but that can only be under the next Caliphate and lead by Jesus(as) with the Mehdi.
I do not perceive that happening in the few years at most left of my life. I am not a spring chicken and the vast majority of my birthdays are behind me.

So you would deny your religion if faced with death for following it. You would betray your beliefs rather than die standing up for them.. You are not made of the same stuff the Jews of Maccabees were. Be happy you were not on Masada.

Islam has been in this country for over 400 years, and has not taken over. Yes there are terrorists who hide behind the name of Islam and they are more likely to kill Muslims than non-Muslims. It is us who have reason to fear the terrorists. They are more of an enemy to us than to you. Show me one sentence in the Qur'an that even if taken out of context says Muslims have to kill Muslims. It does not seem they are acting very Islamic, although they call themselves Muslim. If the terrorists are following true teachings of Islam, how many days do you think Islam would have lasted?
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:58 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
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[quote=Woodrow LI;19756893][quote=Jazzymom;19755607]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

I believe I have stated many times there are no Islamic Countries and will not be one until the return of Jesus(as). Yes, I support the return of Jesus(as) and the establishment of a true Islamic world. but that can only be under the next Caliphate and lead by Jesus(as) with the Mehdi.
I do not perceive that happening in the few years at most left of my life. I am not a spring chicken and the vast majority of my birthdays are behind me.

So you would deny your religion if faced with death for following it. You would betray your beliefs rather than die standing up for them.. You are not made of the same stuff the Jews of Maccabees were. Be happy you were not on Masada.

Islam has been in this country for over 400 years, and has not taken over. Yes there are terrorists who hide behind the name of Islam and they are more likely to kill Muslims than non-Muslims. It is us who have reason to fear the terrorists. They are more of an enemy to us than to you. Show me one sentence in the Qur'an that even if taken out of context says Muslims have to kill Muslims. It does not seem they are acting very Islamic, although they call themselves Muslim. If the terrorists are following true teachings of Islam, how many days do you think Islam would have lasted?

I would not kill innocents in a suicide bombing. That is what my friend was proud of. That her children would die and kill for Islam. That to be a martyr was a good thing.

I would not betray my people, I would stand with them. I would fight with them. I would die with them.

Everyone has reason to fear the Islamists.

I never said they were acting in an Islamic way.

The quran does tell them to kill non believers, to kill Jews. Where ever you find them.

The kill muslims as they see them as not being the right kind of Muslim. Thus sunni have no problem killing shia. I have seen muslims in this forum say shia are not real muslims.

So please stop twisting my words.
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Old 06-26-2011, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
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[quote=Jazzymom;19757832][quote=Woodrow LI;19756893]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post


I would not kill innocents in a suicide bombing. That is what my friend was proud of. That her children would die and kill for Islam. That to be a martyr was a good thing.

I would not betray my people, I would stand with them. I would fight with them. I would die with them.

Everyone has reason to fear the Islamists.

I never said they were acting in an Islamic way.

The quran does tell them to kill non believers, to kill Jews. Where ever you find them.

The kill muslims as they see them as not being the right kind of Muslim. Thus sunni have no problem killing shia. I have seen muslims in this forum say shia are not real muslims.

So please stop twisting my words.

Quote:

The quran does tell them to kill non believers, to kill Jews. Where ever you find them.

you are still Repeat your media propaganda usual

Is it not silly!! Let's say the person who does not know the Koran says this


did Quran ever mention about kill non believers ?


YouTube - ‪Kill all Christian and Jews‬‏
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:03 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
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[quote=weaam;19758235][quote=Jazzymom;19757832]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post





you are still Repeat your media propaganda usual

Is it not silly!! Let's say the person who does not know the Koran says this


did Quran ever mention about kill non believers ?


YouTube - ‪Kill all Christian and Jews‬‏

Quran and killing the non muslim:

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Qur'an 9:005: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.



Islam Watch - "An Introduction to Real Islam" by Shabana Muhammad (http://www.islam-watch.org/Shabana/RealIslam/Chapter6.htm - broken link)


The text of the Koran is undeniable. How can you be Muslim and still support our Constitution?
Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Let us begin the with the pillars of Faith.

1) The Testimony of Faith:

The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah. This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam (as explained previously on this page). The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam.


2) PrayerSALAT)

Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.


3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):

All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.


4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:

Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.



5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:

The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.


Pillar 2 is often misunderstood as Salat does not translate exactly into the Non-Muslim concept of prayer. This does confuse some reverts to Islam as they have a different concept of prayer. Salat corresponds more closely to the Christian concept of Worship Service. What we call Du'as are more in the meaning of the English word prayer and these we can do at any time and should do as often as possible.


peace be upon you my brother

may Allah reward you ..

Personally, I love to talk about Islam with all Muslims of various ethnic

look, here people are come your page or a page any Muslim for just post the Western propaganda against Islam

they just post what Western media said to them

so, I often ask them, in spite of all these distorting campaigns to the image of Islam WHY IS STILL ISLAM STRONG AND THE MOST EMBRACE?

They always repeat Islam is a religion of violence and terrorism, so Why the popularity of its conversion in America and Europe ?


The answer is simply because for it the true religion of God, backed by God (ALLAH)

So no one can stand in the face her universality
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Old 06-26-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,337,863 times
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Originally Posted by weaam View Post
peace be upon you my brother

may Allah reward you ..

Personally, I love to talk about Islam with all Muslims of various ethnic

look, here people are come your page or a page any Muslim for just post the Western propaganda against Islam

they just post what Western media said to them

so, I often ask them, in spite of all these distorting campaigns to the image of Islam WHY IS STILL ISLAM STRONG AND THE MOST EMBRACE?

They always repeat Islam is a religion of violence and terrorism, so Why the popularity of its conversion in America and Europe ?


The answer is simply because for it the true religion of God, backed by God (ALLAH)

So no one can stand in the face her universality

weaam, come to my world and you will see something entirely different. I'm sure Woodrow LI will attest to that. You see in this country we have many different religions and beliefs and all live together under a democracy and it is the democracy that takes precedence over any religion or belief. Our system of government is completely separate from all religions and beliefs and it is designed that way on purpose and that is why all religions and beliefs can coexist in this country, not so in the Middle East. This is not meant to be argumentative or disrespectful, it is stated as a fact and nothing more.
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