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Old 06-28-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Woodrow I know what the hadith are. The muslims I know put more effort into following the hadith then reading the Quran. They put effort into reading the hadith and memorizing the Quran.

Again if you need the hadith to tell you about your religion you are putting it above the Quran.



Muhammad did not write the hadith, he was not even alive when they were written. They are hearsay. They are hearsay because they are sayings of the prophet as others heard them. Many of the hadith came from the companions of the prophet and his wife Aisha. But they are still hearsay.

If they heard him say something or saw him do something and enough people also saw the same thing then it must be so.

There is nothing scientific about heresay.

And you would be wrong about the Bar Mitzvah. There is a structure to the service but it is not the same for all B'nai Mitzvot. In fact there is much flexibility in the services depending on what is the custom in each movement or community.

Many communities don't have a rabbi and they still have Bar Mitzvah services.

In fact I am currently working on my son's Bar Mitzvah service and we have no Rabbi. I am putting together his siddur myself as that is the tradition in my community. He will work with a tutor for a period of time to study the prayers and Torah portion he will chant.

I will bring in an outside facilitator to lead the service.

So you would be wrong as to comparing a bar mitzvah service to the hadith.



Quote:

Muhammad did not write the hadith, he was not even alive when they were written. They are hearsay. They are hearsay because they are sayings of the prophet as others heard them. Many of the hadith came from the companions of the prophet and his wife Aisha. But they are still hearsay.



Now, How did you know that they were hearsay ? Do you have any evidence to their hearsay ?


When you go to court the judge will not believe you until you are Present at the scene
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:12 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
Now, How did you know that they were hearsay ? Do you have any evidence to their hearsay ?


When you go to court the judge will not believe you until you are Present at the scene

Definition of Hearsay:

hearsay (usually uncountable; plural hearsays)

information that was heard by one person about another


It is hearsay because the hadith were written after Muhammad had died.
They are sayings attributed to him, by other people who have a connection to him, but he is not alive to verify anything.

And as to a court of law, the hadith would be considered hearsay in that there is no proof, only a chain of people who say he said something.

But we all know that in transmission what was originally said often changes as it is passed from one person to another.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:17 AM
 
Location: PA
563 posts, read 801,309 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
no, you never offended me, Let me explain to you what I meant :

The Qur'an is one leg of two which form the basis of Islam. The second leg is the Sunnah of the Prophet . What makes the Qur'an different from the Sunnah is primarily its form. Unlike the Sunnah, the Qur'an is quite literally the Word of Allah, whereas the Sunnah was inspired by Allah but the wording and actions are the Prophet's. The Qur'an has not been expressed using any human's words. Its wording is letter for letter fixed by no one but Allah


Al-hadith are In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad , the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned


Here a trusted source :

http://www.islamicweb.com/?folder=quran
Thanks, Weaam. I recognize the value of writings about how the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) lived and behaved. It is good to understand how he lived his life and the examples he set day to day.
But don't you think that is contextual? Meaning, if he were here today, would he have Facebook? And then all followers would have to also? Would he drive a Ford or a Toyota? Would he ride a bicycle? TV or no TV?
Would he fly to other countries and spread the message?
My worry is that some things of a persons life are great examples, but would they have done the same thing in our time?
Our world today is so different than when he was here. Than even 200 years ago. Than 50 years ago. We face things our ancestors never conceived.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
That is a very understandable view and one that many Muslims do agree with. However, the Qur'an does tell us to do as Muhammad(PBUH) taught/did and that is found in the Ahadith. For example read Surat 4 ayyat 59

Woodrow, my question to this, just exactly what did Mohammed teach and how was his teachings authenticated. If the Ahadith did not come about until after Mohammed's death, then how do you know it's authentic and by your own requirements for authenticity, the Ahadith cannot be authorized.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Definition of Hearsay:

hearsay (usually uncountable; plural hearsays)

information that was heard by one person about another


It is hearsay because the hadith were written after Muhammad had died.
They are sayings attributed to him, by other people who have a connection to him, but he is not alive to verify anything.

And as to a court of law, the hadith would be considered hearsay in that there is no proof, only a chain of people who say he said something.

But we all know that in transmission what was originally said often changes as it is passed from one person to another.

Quote:
It is hearsay because the hadith were written after Muhammad had died.

who was said you this!!!

Oh, It seems that non-Arabic speakers are losing too much detail about Islam Specifically "al-hadith"

I will try to translate some of al-ahdiths and details about this point, I know very well that this does not work with you, anyway piece of information
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:30 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,428,603 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
who was said you this!!!

Oh, It seems that non-Arabic speakers are losing too much detail about Islam Specifically "al-hadith"

I will try to translate some of al-ahdiths and details about this point, I know very well that this does not work with you, anyway piece of information

I am just answering your question about hearsay:

Originally Posted by weaam
Now, How did you know that they were hearsay ? Do you have any evidence to their hearsay ?


When you go to court the judge will not believe you until you are Present at the scene



If you agree or disagree it does not change the definition of hearsay.

And a judge would deem the hadith as hearsay because they are not provable. The only evidence is the chain of what people say.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderingWanderer View Post
Thanks, Weaam. I recognize the value of writings about how the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) lived and behaved. It is good to understand how he lived his life and the examples he set day to day.
But don't you think that is contextual? Meaning, if he were here today, would he have Facebook? And then all followers would have to also? Would he drive a Ford or a Toyota? Would he ride a bicycle? TV or no TV?
Would he fly to other countries and spread the message?


The most important, are all these Do not contradict being of use them Muslim or not, Muhammad peace be upon him died, and he knows that a period will is in evolution,that his nation will live Different period, Different tools, Different style, Different vision, Which makes it difficult to imagine what if he was Between us? Yes, it's hard to live the life that had lived Muhammad peace be upon him as style but is difficult to live his principles morals, Dealing, love, feelings, Even if a few of them? Certainly not
so Islam in the large capacity and flexibility For we enjoy our lives as Muslims


My worry is that some things of a persons life are great examples, but would they have done the same thing in our time?

I think that Principles,and good morals are Coinciding with the all time


Our world today is so different than when he was here. Than even 200 years ago. Than 50 years ago. We face things our ancestors never conceived.

you can we lived our time as it as without hard so we are not forced to live Prophet Muhammad's lifestyle peace be upon him


I do not know if I was understood to your intent well or not

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Old 06-28-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,513 posts, read 10,336,657 times
Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by weaam View Post
who was said you this!!!

Oh, It seems that non-Arabic speakers are losing too much detail about Islam Specifically "al-hadith"

I will try to translate some of al-ahdiths and details about this point, I know very well that this does not work with you, anyway piece of information
weaam, try to be respectful,Jazzymom was responding to a question that you asked to begin with and just because Jazzymom is Jewish does not mean that she does not deserve to be respected, just as you. This is where problems occur when one is disrespectful to another. This whole thing is supposed to be a learning process and one does not learn unless one asks questions, so let's try to keep this conversation as respectful as we can.
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Old 06-28-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
I am just answering your question about hearsay:

Originally Posted by weaam
Now, How did you know that they were hearsay ? Do you have any evidence to their hearsay ?


When you go to court the judge will not believe you until you are Present at the scene



If you agree or disagree it does not change the definition of hearsay.

And a judge would deem the hadith as hearsay because they are not provable. The only evidence is the chain of what people say.

yes, I know what hearsay is , but al-hadith totally is not hearsay, I do not know if I find a stuff explains this point well in English but I will try.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,702 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum View Post
weaam, try to be respectful,Jazzymom was responding to a question that you asked to begin with and just because Jazzymom is Jewish does not mean that she does not deserve to be respected, just as you. This is where problems occur when one is disrespectful to another. This whole thing is supposed to be a learning process and one does not learn unless one asks questions, so let's try to keep this conversation as respectful as we can.

Ok. as long as you wrote this,that means, you saw to one side

I said more than once here, I have no problem with Jews ,I knew some Jews and treat them with respect, I did not say one day, I hate the Jews, neither here nor anywhere but Jazzymom, More than once said I hate Muslims, islam , Without regard for the feelings of Muslims here

anyway,I Do not want to turn it to court
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