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Old 06-30-2011, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBeavs View Post
Funny how only the Muslims seem to take their extremism as an overt order to kill on purely religious grounds.

I'm of the opinion that all of religion is a hoax and a canard, but Islam strikes me as one of the more plagiaristic, violent forms of the bunch.
It even strikes us as strange. Especially that since the vast majority of those killed are Muslims and that virtually all of the violence is attributed to 2 sort of mysterious groups al-qaeda and the taliban.

An examination of those 2 groups and their origins may give some clues. al-qaeda is very new and of recent formation. Their origin is fairly easy to find.

Quote:
Al-Qaeda (Arabic: القاعدة‎, al-qāʿidah, Arabic: [ælˈqɑːʕɪdɐ], English: /ælˈkaɪdə/ al-ky-də), alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida, is a global militant Sunni Islamist group founded by Osama bin Laden sometime between August 1988 and late 1989. It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army and a radical Sunni Muslim movement calling for global Jihad.

Al-Qaeda has attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, such as the 11 September attacks, 1998 US embassy bombings and 2002 Bali bombings. The US government responded by launching the War on Terror. Al-Qaeda has continued to exist and grew through the decade from 2001 to 2011.]

Characteristic techniques include suicide attacks and simultaneous bombings of different targets. Activities ascribed to it may involve members of the movement, who have taken a pledge of loyalty to Osama bin Laden, or the much more numerous "al-Qaeda-linked" individuals who have undergone training in one of its camps in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq or Sudan, but not taken any pledge.

Al-Qaeda ideologues envision a complete break from the foreign influences in Muslim countries, and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. Reported beliefs include that a Christian-Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam, which is largely embodied in the U.S.-Israel alliance, and that the killing of bystanders and civilians is religiously justified in jihad.
SOURCE

Now the question is Just how much of Islam do they follow? What is the source of their training and where do the members come from? Who finances their operations?

 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:02 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It even strikes us as strange. Especially that since the vast majority of those killed are Muslims and that virtually all of the violence is attributed to 2 sort of mysterious groups al-qaeda and the taliban.

An examination of those 2 groups and their origins may give some clues. al-qaeda is very new and of recent formation. Their origin is fairly easy to find.


SOURCE

Now the question is Just how much of Islam do they follow? What is the source of their training and where do the members come from? Who finances their operations?

Woodrow,

They probably don't follow Islam as you think it ought to be followed. The Qur'an has peaceful passages and violent passages.

Those who take the violent road in Islam absolutely justify it with passages in the Quran.

You and others can say all you want they are not following Islam but it is not up to you.

There are as many Imams who justify their actions as those who don't.

The bottom line is that anything can be justified by those who want to.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Woodrow,

They probably don't follow Islam as you think it ought to be followed. The Qur'an has peaceful passages and violent passages.

Those who take the violent road in Islam absolutely justify it with passages in the Quran.

You and others can say all you want they are not following Islam but it is not up to you.

There are as many Imams who justify their actions as those who don't.

The bottom line is that anything can be justified by those who want to.
I must be getting senile. I agree with you here.

Al-qaeda is quite scary and if you look at these 2 videos you may agree that even us sunni Muslims have reason to fear Al-Qaeda and they claim to be Sunni. Both Saudi and Yemen are Sunni




 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Peace my sister,

Although the Western media seems to dwell upon negative news about us. I do not see it as a sinister plan. It is based on money. the Media is designed to make money. They are profit motivated and as such they want to have the highest ratings and be able to charge the most for advertising. the sad fact is sensationalism attracts the largest audience. good news does not sell, find something bad to say about somebody and that will attract an audience.

We and others are the victims of greed for money.

People do not want to know we are humans with compassion for others. That will not sell advertising space. People want to read about us as if we are a horror story. fear is a great motivation to sell news.

yes, I agree with you , Islam became as trading have
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So that whole "jihad" thing is just made up by the U.S. media?!

NO. Nothing to do with jihad at all, Attacks is not jihad so I will explain to you what Jihad other time
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:40 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,426,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So that whole "jihad" thing is just made up by the U.S. media?!
No, it isn't.

Jihad means to struggle.

Jihad ( /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ ǧihād [dʒiˈhæːd]), an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād translates as a noun meaning "struggle".

This is a link about Jihad that I felt was balanced.
The concept of Jihad in Islam
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
616 posts, read 591,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
No, it isn't.

Jihad means to struggle.

Jihad ( /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ ǧihād [dʒiˈhæːd]), an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād translates as a noun meaning "struggle".

This is a link about Jihad that I felt was balanced.
The concept of Jihad in Islam

that's right, in the Arabic language is called Jihad, not war


War = attack

Jihad = struggle and defense

thanks, your link was good
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,286,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
No, it isn't.

Jihad means to struggle.

Jihad ( /dʒɪˈhɑːd/; Arabic: جهاد‎ ǧihād [dʒiˈhæːd]), an Islamic term, is a religious duty of Muslims. In Arabic, the word jihād translates as a noun meaning "struggle".

This is a link about Jihad that I felt was balanced.
The concept of Jihad in Islam
Thank You, the link is well balanced.

I feel the concept of the "Physical Jihad" is misused by too many. The second any of us become the aggressor, we are not following Jihad. Physical Jihad is only justified in terms of protection and not as aggression. To fine tune further, the Qur'an is very specific that innocents and non-combatants are not to be harmed.
 
Old 06-30-2011, 06:59 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,340,040 times
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I live in West Philadelphia, PA and here we have a vibrant, thriving Muslim community. Within a mile of my house there are 2 Masjids (Mosques). Most of the Muslims are immigrants from African or Middle-Eastern countries, but some are native born Americans.

All of the Muslims I know are friendly and law abiding citizens ... and certainly none of them are terrorists as far as I know.

Since I live in a diverse neighborhood ... a neighborhood with a lot Christians of all denominations, a significant number of Jews (there is a synagogue called Kol Tzedek and a Kosher restaurant nearby), Asians who are Buddhists (especially Tibetans in Exile), and much higher percentage of Lesbian and Gay people than average ... and yet we all seem to get along.

The Muslims have opened several really excellent restaurants such as Saad's Halal House (Lebanese .... great felafel!) and Kabobeesh (Pakistani - delicious kabobs, especially the Donner Kabob), a terrific Lebanese bakery, and also a couple of Halal grocery stores.

It is true that the Buddhists are still infuriated at the Taliban for destroying and desecrating the Buddha images at Bamiyan, Afghanistan; and the Jews are anxious about any attempt to destroy the State of Israel and kill all the Jews there ... but in our little local community there seems to be respect for one another and the local Muslims seem to be sensitive to the feelings of their neighbors.
 
Old 07-01-2011, 12:27 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,969,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBeavs View Post
Funny how only the Muslims seem to take their extremism as an overt order to kill on purely religious grounds.
Islam I think does have a greater concern with events of "this world" than many religions and a tendency to be a total way of life. Although in India there are actually violent Hindu-nationalists and in the past the Sikhs had a violent insurrection group there. There still might be some Sikh terrorist groups.

There are other factors at work too. For much of the Islamic world the relationship to the West was different than that of other peoples. For the American Indians, the Southeast Asians, and sub-Saharan Africans European imperialism could be like being conquered by a new or even somewhat alien force. For the Islamic world it was like being conquered, and much of North Africa at least was conquered, by a force they had pretty much always known. The reversal, losing areas that had long been Muslim like much of the Levant or even Algeria, was bracing. How they dealt with that, and the West, was going to be different because they had a history with the West.

Granted the Islamic world is now independent, but some of the movements we know date from the era when the Ottoman Empire, the Persians, and others were in decline and increasingly in-debt or controlled by the West. One reaction to it was ethnic nationalism. To varying degrees you see/saw that in regimes like Turkey, Syria, Egypt, Iraq under Saddam, and some of the PLO aspect of Palestinians. The ethnic nationalist response wasn't necessarily peaceful or even against terrorism. Baathist Syria is even willing to support religious terrorists if they feel it is in their interest and it'd be hard to see Saddam's regime as much more humane than even Iran's. The other response was Islamism. The belief that to be strong again the Islamic world needs to intensify its core-principles, as they understand them, and also make them clearer and more overarching over the entire society. To varying degrees you see that in Sudan, Iran, the Taliban, Hamas, and in a monarchial way Saudi Arabia. (Although as they are not even ostensibly a caliphate or Islamic Republic many Islamist thinkers see Saudi as essentially invalid) Pakistan has a bit of both approaches. They have strong blasphemy laws, and an important part of why they are a separate nation from India is because they are Muslim, but they also have a strong military-regime tendency. I guess Sudan is also a bit of both really.

In addition to that the Islamic world, even the parts well outside the areas ruled in the Rashidun period or Ottoman Empire, has a demographic that gives them a large percent of young unmarried men. Generally speaking young unmarried men are more likely to get in trouble than most any demographic group. On top of that unemployment is often high in this region and even in places with jobs, like the wealthier Gulf states, work is often done by foreign laborers. So you have young unmarried men who do not have an obvious or clear sense of purpose. Violence for a cause gives them that. It also can give that for young unmarried women and even young married couples. In a far smaller way you saw that in the US with Manson, the Weatherman, etc during our "Baby Boom" generation's "Coming of Age."

Much of this is referring to a specific region of the Islamic world. In places like Mali or Senegal Islamic terrorism is relatively rare. Much of what could be deemed "Islamic terrorism" in West Africa, outside Nigeria which is a different case, has a strong ethnic component. Tuaregs are maybe fighting Malians now, and possibly Islamic terms are used, but I think that's largely just about inter-ethnic squabbles. Even in a nation like Sudan the violence against Darfur was largely about ethnicity as the Fur people are Muslim. (Darfur means "abode of the Fur." The violence in the South was largely religious though) The Northern Sudanese deem themselves Arabs and saw the Fur as untrustworthy/troublesome black people. I don't know the situation in Indonesia well enough to say why they have Radicals. Possibly it's because they had a repressive regime for a time and religion was a way for opposition movements, and governments too, to legitimize themselves. Pakistan's situation of colonialism is similar to the Mideast and North Africa.

Granted another aspect is that Islam clearly does allow for war as "diplomacy by other means." The early text on jihad I have by even liberal Muslim thinkers, like Avicenna, are pretty far from pacifistic. Although generally certain rules are agreed on that many terrorists violate. (No intentional killing of women, children, or monks. Also possibly no "sneak attacks" as I seem to recall you are expected to "announce to the enemy" before battle)
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