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Old 07-12-2011, 05:41 PM
 
591 posts, read 562,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
Ball Pean do you believe that Moses divided the sea into two parts ?

Weather I believe he did or not, weather th Bible is fiction or not, the Koran lies about the charecture of Moses. It does it to the charecture of Jesus, and the charecture of God as well. You have the chatectures in the Bible, then you have the charectures in the Koran. The fact that they have the same names, doesn't make them the same charectures in any way whatsoever. Muhammad plagerizes the Bible, makes up mythologies with the charectures which completely distorts the essence of the charectures. The essence of the charectures in both books oppose each other in profound ways. THe Moses, Jesus, and God of the Koran is a perverted version of Moses, Jesus, and God. It's Mythologies like Islam that destroy other religions.

Last edited by Ball Pean; 07-12-2011 at 05:55 PM..

 
Old 07-12-2011, 07:08 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,274 times
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The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel are all Allah’s Word.
The current Torah, Psalms and Gospel are corrupted.
The final word of Allah, the Quran is preserved and correct and true 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsun View Post
The earliest copy of Saint Luke's Gospel in existence is known as the Bodmer Papyrus XIV-XV. It belongs to the Vatican Library and can be dated from between 175-225 AD, which is roughly one hundred to one hundred and fifty years after scholars believe the original was written. The document consists of fifty-one pages of a manuscript that originally contained seventy-two pages.

The very earliest known fragment of the New Testament is from Saint John's Gospel and is slightly earlier. It dates from some time in the first half of the second century, which is maybe fifty years after the original was written, according to Biblical scholars.

As for the Old Testament, there are around one thousand manuscript copies in existence. Before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls the earliest Hebrew copy of the Old Testament was the Masoretic text (named after a group of Hebrew scribes known as the Massoretes), dating from around 800 AD.

The oldest Greek version of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint dates back to around the second century BC. However, with the discovery in 1947 of many ancient manuscripts in earthenware jars found in a cave at Qumran near the Dead Sea, two copies of the Old Testament Book of Isaiah, written in Hebrew, were found, which were one thousand years earlier than any previous manuscripts.

So, what does all this tell us, and how does it fit into what Muslims believe about the original Torah and Injeel (Gospel) being corrupted? In other words, how does it answer your question?

For our purposes, the Torah responds to what is now referred to by Christians and Jews as the Old Testament, and the Injeel refers to what Christians refer to as the Gospels, which form a part of the New Testament.

There are clearly, then, existing copies of both the Jewish and Christian texts, dating back quite a long way. Biblical scholars are agreed that most of these texts agree with one another in about ninety-five per cent of their content. That seems quite a lot and seems to suggest not much change in thousands of years.

However, five per cent of a book is still a considerable number of words, especially when you consider that the Old Testament is made up of 39 different books and a total of 593,493 words, and that the New Testament is made up of 27 books and 181,253 words. That means that nearly thirty thousand words differ in the Old Testament and nearly nine thousand words are different from one another in the New Testament.

Enough of playing with numbers. Muslims believe that the original of both the Torah and the Injeel no longer exist in their original form. We read in the Quran what means:

*{Some of the Jews pervert words from their meanings.}* (An-Nisaa 4:46)

And also:

*{So woe to those who wrote the Book with their hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' that they may sell it for a little price. So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for their earnings.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:79)

Muslims believe that God the Almighty did indeed reveal His message to previous generations through Prophets He sent down to them. Each of these messages was for a particular people at a particular time in history. The message given to Moses, then, was for the Jews of his time. The message given to Jesus, was for the Jesus of his own time.

The Quran, though, which was revealed to the unlettered Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over a period of twenty-three years, was for all people and for all time.

So you see, there are indeed copies in existence of the books which Christians and Jews believe were the revelation of Allah. Muslims, however, do not believe that these books are a true record of what was originally revealed. They were either written down wrongly in the first place, or were corrupted by translation or by the deliberate actions of men.

It would take an answer much longer than this one to explain, for example, how the Gospels were written. The early Christian Church eventually chose four Gospels from among many, which roughly corresponded to what Christians already believed.

The writers of these particular four differ in their intentions in writing, but none of them write to prove anything about Jesus. They write to portray a different aspect of Jesus for a particular audience.

In some places they actually disagree with one another, because they are not dealing with facts, as we know them, but with artistic creativity. These Gospels are indeed beautifully crafted, but cannot and do not claim to be the literal word of God.

These Gospels were written after the letters of Saint Paul, in which the case is made very strongly for Jesus being divine. Paul claims his knowledge of this came from a personal revelation from Jesus.

You will realize, sister, that trying to sum up the whole breadth of Biblical scholarship and Quranic belief in such a sound-bite answer is like trying to explain nuclear physics in a thousand words.

In a nutshell, the answer is this: yes, there are copies of both the Old and New Testament in existence, which date from relatively close to the time the original message was revealed.

Muslims, however, do not believe that these scriptures are indeed the Torah and the Injeel (Gospel) originally revealed to men by Allah Almighty. They believe this because the Quran tells them that they are not. The originals no longer exist.

We should be very careful, then, in quoting from them to prove a point, since we are quoting from something which we believe to be corrupted.

This does not, however, prevent us from respecting what Christians and Jews believe, because their own books are sacred to them and we do, after all, worship the One God.

Where Are the Original Torah & Gospel? - Reading Islam.com - Ask About Islam
 
Old 07-12-2011, 10:38 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
...and Banu Isra'il had the chance to see the private parts of moses, and said:

By Allah, moses does not suffer from any ailment.

The stone then stopped, till moses had been seen by them, and he then took hold of his clothes and struck the stone.
)

O ye who believe! Be not as those who slandered Moses, but Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, and he was well esteemed in Allah's sight.

O ye who believe! Guard your duty to Allah, and speak words straight to the point;

He will adjust your works for you and will forgive you your sins. Whosoever obeyeth Allah and His messenger, he verily hath gained a signal victory.
Lo! We offered the trust unto the heavens and the earth and the hills, but they shrank from bearing it and were afraid of it. And man assumed it. Lo! he hath proved a tyrant and a fool.

So Allah punisheth hypocritical men and hypocritical women, and idolatrous men and idolatrous women. But Allah pardoneth believing men and believing women, and Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
The Noble Quran.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,260 posts, read 13,829,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
Allah proved that Prophet Moses, peace be upon him is Innocent from what his people said about him.
by making the stone takes his clothes.

if you do not beleive that you were created by Allah then you would not believe in his power and ability and that you will return to him and get the result for your test in this this life and thier are only two result
paradise or Hell.
They made not a just estimate of Allah such as is due to Him. And on the Day of Resurrection the whole of the earth will be grasped by His Hand and the heavens will be rolled up in His Right Hand.Glorified be He, and High be He above all that they associate as partners with Him! The Noble Quran.

I like those clothes stealing stones. They obviously have a sense of humor(those crazy rocks), and would have been bored as well. It's a quirky little tale that doesn't offend.

Then there is the hell idea, which is nothing but pure hatred towards those who don't share your beliefs. Hell is a sick idea dreamed up by losers. Fear is obviously the basis for your faith and you want others to share your fear. Time to became a decent and civilized person. Throw your book away and learn to think for yourself. Stop living in fear.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 01:13 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I like those clothes stealing stones. They obviously have a sense of humor(those crazy rocks), and would have been bored as well. It's a quirky little tale that doesn't offend.

Then there is the hell idea, which is nothing but pure hatred towards those who don't share your beliefs. Hell is a sick idea dreamed up by losers. Fear is obviously the basis for your faith and you want others to share your fear. Time to became a decent and civilized person. Throw your book away and learn to think for yourself. Stop living in fear.
not only Hell but i also believe in paradise.


here is another miracle

"And what is that in your right hand, O Musa (Moses)?"
He said: "This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses."
(Allah) said: "Cast it down, O Musa (Moses)!"
He cast it down, and behold! It was a snake, moving quickly.
Allah said: "Grasp it and fear not; We shall return it to its former state The Noble Quran .
 
Old 07-13-2011, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,260 posts, read 13,829,727 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
not only Hell but i also believe in paradise.


here is another miracle

"And what is that in your right hand, O Musa (Moses)?"
He said: "This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep, and wherein I find other uses."
(Allah) said: "Cast it down, O Musa (Moses)!"
He cast it down, and behold! It was a snake, moving quickly.
Allah said: "Grasp it and fear not; We shall return it to its former state The Noble Quran .
It sounds like there was a bit of acid (LSD) around in those days.
 
Old 07-13-2011, 03:15 PM
 
439 posts, read 483,274 times
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O mankind! fear your Lord! for the convulsion of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a thing terrible!
The Day ye shall see it, every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling- babe, and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah. The Noble Quran .

 
Old 07-13-2011, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,260 posts, read 13,829,727 times
Reputation: 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
O mankind! fear your Lord! for the convulsion of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a thing terrible!
The Day ye shall see it, every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling- babe, and every pregnant female shall drop her load (unformed): thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet not drunk: but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah. The Noble Quran .

What a charming fellow this Allah is. Does he have any other party tricks?
 
Old 07-14-2011, 09:11 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 11,088,170 times
Reputation: 19982
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmessage View Post
i hope that you use your intelligence to know that the Quran is from the one who created you.

.

nope,!!!>> the qu'ran was conjured up by muhammad, illiterate camel herder, peace be apon his sould,, and written down by some scribes that liked his idea of gaining power over the flock of sheoples..


the amazing thing is that the sheople fell for it, and keep getting sucked into the vortex.. poor souls..


allah is just a word in a book of fairy tales,, nothing more nothing less
 
Old 07-14-2011, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,030,198 times
Reputation: 5080
I use my intelligence to see that the so-called holy books are nothing more than primitive peoples' attempts to understand their world. Aside from the control, power, and wealth which accrued, of course.
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